Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Suspension and other discussion

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:08 pm

bajallama wrote:
Anyway, we are talking about modified street cars here, not top $ or top engineered race cars.
Its far cheaper for us to increase engine HP than it is to reduce rotating mass for the same gain.
We also cannot test 10 variations of calipers and rotors to come up with the lightest combination that suits the needs, hence why its better to aim larger.
All our needs are different too, so one simple formula wont work.



I am in agreement with this statement. I'm not saying I will put any of those components on my car, I'm obviously on a budget. It was used as an example to show that it is important and everyone posting seemed to shrug it off. It is very important though when you are racing in power/weight limited street classes.


Assuming i can find parts, ill be looking at the IS350 caliper + 2pc STi rotor setup.


355mm caliper on a 326mm rotor?



The IS350 caliper is designed for 334mm rotors not 355mm. The GS350 Fsport uses a different mono block body designed to fit the larger rotor. Piston size and pads are the exact same. In fact I'm going to have to grind some metal out of the caliper to get it down so as not to have 1mm of pad overhang.

As for your statement regarding us shrugging it off believe me I did not. If anything I was waiting on your excel spread sheet so I could run my rear options for bias. I believe everyone posting in this thread understands what you are trying to convey but we all take it as a necessary evil. As you said the Alltrac completely lacks thermal mass and with increasing that mass comes increased diameter and width. This increases the negative effect associated with inertia. Personally I'm not going to increase the diameter beyond 14" as it's not needed.
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:53 pm

The IS350 caliper is designed for 334mm rotors not 355mm. The GS350 Fsport uses a different mono block body designed to fit the larger rotor. Piston size and pads are the exact same. In fact I'm going to have to grind some metal out of the caliper to get it down so as not to have 1mm of pad overhang.

As for your statement regarding us shrugging it off believe me I did not. If anything I was waiting on your excel spread sheet so I could run my rear options for bias. I believe everyone posting in this thread understands what you are trying to convey but we all take it as a necessary evil. As you said the Alltrac completely lacks thermal mass and with increasing that mass comes increased diameter and width. This increases the negative effect associated with inertia. Personally I'm not going to increase the diameter beyond 14" as it's not needed.


My bad (and edited). I thought he was talking about the GS caliper for some reason, I got them mixed up from the previous discussion. Ya the sheet is kinda messy, I'm reorganizing it to make it more user friendly. Rear bias can always be adjusted, but always goal your rear setup so it's as close to ideal with not having to have a proportioning valve almost closed to retain 4 wheel lockup, but not too small where you don't, that's why you calculate! So I'll let you know when I finish it.
ProjectZ61.com
User avatar
bajallama
Club Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:34 pm

RedCelicaTRD wrote:Do you happen to have a part number for those rotors?


Oh I almost forgot here are the rotor part numbers:
RH 43512-30371
LH 43516-30061
These are the most current updated numbers from the TSIB. I know a couple people pm'd me for them so I figured I'd post them here.
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby MWP » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:47 pm

Amayama lists them at $325US each.
Still, not too bad considering they are a big factory 2pc rotor.

I wonder if this would work: http://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts/lexu ... 30061.html

Do you have the caliper part numbers by any chance?
My collection of GT4 documentation: http://gt4.mwp.id.au
Daily: Celica GT4 ST185 (~170kw/atw)
Project: Toyota RA28 '77 Celica (1UZ-FE powered)
Chairman of the SA Classic Celica Club.
MWP
Established Member
 
Posts: 1591
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby RedCelicaTRD » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm

I checked a few other online spots and also come up with an MSRP of just under $100. I say if you want them, get them now. That price wont last forever. The low price is likely associated with the TSB.
Wayne
1990 All Trac
2017 SRT Challenger Hellcat
Grumpy Moderator
RedCelicaTRD
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:58 pm
Location: Syracuse, UT

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby Cuttyman9 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:34 pm

Those are worth nabbing just cuz lol
So those part numbers come with the disc the hat and the bolts all assembled?

Thank you for posting them!
What I was thinking is if I had two sets of bolts and a spacer bracket for my bracket(or two sets of brackets) I could swap between rotors at least that way I still have some wheel options.
1992 Celica GT Hatch
1971 Cutlass
1967 Chevelle
1975 Trans Am
1966 C20 Long Bed
1999 F150
User avatar
Cuttyman9
Club Member
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm

RedCelicaTRD wrote:I checked a few other online spots and also come up with an MSRP of just under $100. I say if you want them, get them now. That price wont last forever. The low price is likely associated with the TSB.


That's exactly what we thought but the pre TSB numbers and post TSB numbers come up with the same price. We also checked stock and there were quite a few in our regional warehouse. If you want the pre TSB numbers just remove the 1 from the end and replace it with a zero (the ones I have). If anyone really wants these I can buy them for you but shipping may not make it cost effective. I will have to look into that.

I don't have the IS350 caliper part numbers as I got mine through a new take off situation. They are not cheap through the dealer! IIRC the correct body F sport ones were 330$ each dead cost so expect an online retailer to charge around 450-500 per caliper. They can be had much cheaper on eBay though.
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:18 pm

Can I ask why you guys are hung up on the IS350 caliper? I am pretty sure they almost identical in size and weight as the UCF30 caliper at almost 5 times the price?? I paid $80 for mine each

I tried to find the piston diameter for it and it looks like they are 42.8 mm just like the UCF30's but just don't have fancy paint (which I prefer) :shrug: or are the F sports 6 pot
ProjectZ61.com
User avatar
bajallama
Club Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:20 pm

Cuttyman9 wrote:Those are worth nabbing just cuz lol
So those part numbers come with the disc the hat and the bolts all assembled?

Thank you for posting them!
What I was thinking is if I had two sets of bolts and a spacer bracket for my bracket(or two sets of brackets) I could swap between rotors at least that way I still have some wheel options.


Yessir it is everything!! They do not list a way to disassemble them and from me looking at the hardware it would require drilling them out. I have no experience with full floating rotor hardware so maybe someone else can chime in regarding how to remove the rotor from the hat.
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:29 pm

bajallama wrote:Can I ask why you guys are hung up on the IS350 caliper? I am pretty sure they almost identical in size and weight as the UCF30 caliper at almost 5 times the price?? I paid $80 for mine each

I tried to find the piston diameter for it and it looks like they are 42.8 mm just like the UCF30's but just don't have fancy paint (which I prefer) :shrug: or are the F sports 6 pot


I got the whole front and rear setup from an IS350 as new for free originally. I had planned to put them on my IS250 but I traded that car in on my ES. I then sold them to a buddy who had them painted Fsport blue with the decals. The calipers pictured are stock IS350 calipers. The real IS F-sport add on kit is 6 piston front 4 piston rear and are just Stoptech kits rebranded.

The IS350 caliper has non staggered pistons at 40mm x4. They are not the same as the UCF30 calipers. There is increased clearance for larger rotors, smaller pistons, lug mount, larger pad swept area, and they are Advics calipers vs. Sumitomo although I believe Advics bought or merged with Sumitomo. Doesn't matter they are both owned by Toyota.

I really wanted to use the LS calipers but you would have to grind into the fluid passages to get them to sit over the GS rotor. That and the pad annulus would not line up properly.
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:31 pm

ALLensTRAC wrote:
Cuttyman9 wrote:Those are worth nabbing just cuz lol
So those part numbers come with the disc the hat and the bolts all assembled?

Thank you for posting them!
What I was thinking is if I had two sets of bolts and a spacer bracket for my bracket(or two sets of brackets) I could swap between rotors at least that way I still have some wheel options.


Yessir it is everything!! They do not list a way to disassemble them and from me looking at the hardware it would require drilling them out. I have no experience with full floating rotor hardware so maybe someone else can chime in regarding how to remove the rotor from the hat.


Not sure if those are floating rotors.
ProjectZ61.com
User avatar
bajallama
Club Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:32 pm

ALLensTRAC wrote:
bajallama wrote:Can I ask why you guys are hung up on the IS350 caliper? I am pretty sure they almost identical in size and weight as the UCF30 caliper at almost 5 times the price?? I paid $80 for mine each

I tried to find the piston diameter for it and it looks like they are 42.8 mm just like the UCF30's but just don't have fancy paint (which I prefer) :shrug: or are the F sports 6 pot


I got the whole front and rear setup from an IS350 as new for free originally. I had planned to put them on my IS250 but I traded that car in on my ES. I then sold them to a buddy who had them painted Fsport blue with the decals. The calipers pictured are stock IS350 calipers. The real IS F-sport add on kit is 6 piston front 4 piston rear and are just Stoptech kits rebranded.

The IS350 caliper has non staggered pistons at 40mm x4. They are not the same as the UCF30 calipers. There is increased clearance for larger rotors, smaller pistons, lug mount, larger pad swept area, and they are Advics calipers vs. Sumitomo although I believe Advics bought or merged with Sumitomo. Doesn't matter they are both owned by Toyota.

I really wanted to use the LS calipers but you would have to grind into the fluid passages to get them to sit over the GS rotor. That and the pad annulus would not line up properly.


Gotcha, can't beat free.
ProjectZ61.com
User avatar
bajallama
Club Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:36 pm

bajallama wrote:
ALLensTRAC wrote:
Cuttyman9 wrote:Those are worth nabbing just cuz lol
So those part numbers come with the disc the hat and the bolts all assembled?

Thank you for posting them!
What I was thinking is if I had two sets of bolts and a spacer bracket for my bracket(or two sets of brackets) I could swap between rotors at least that way I still have some wheel options.


Yessir it is everything!! They do not list a way to disassemble them and from me looking at the hardware it would require drilling them out. I have no experience with full floating rotor hardware so maybe someone else can chime in regarding how to remove the rotor from the hat.


Not sure if those are floating rotors.


Yes they are in fact full floating rotors. Look on Lexus's site about the F-sport GS and they list it. I had to take a bunch of new model training on that car so I know. I wish I could get good pics of the hardware but it's difficult to see. Maybe I'll order a spare set and take these apart as I want to get the hat anodized or coated in some way.
Allen

1992 Toyota Celica Alltrac "Never ending Project"
2014 Lexus CT200h Redline/Black "Daily project"
2006 Toyota Highlander Wifes daily
User avatar
ALLensTRAC
Club Member
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: Sarasota,FL

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Wow ya that's awesome then. If it's similar to a motorcycle then the they are like a one time use fastener, they have to be drilled out to be removed. That is probably why they are replacing the whole rotor under the TSB.
ProjectZ61.com
User avatar
bajallama
Club Member
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby Cuttyman9 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:29 am

On the F sport I didnt see where they used the 6 pots, I only saw a caliper similar to the is350 one.
the isf def uses a 6 pot.
1992 Celica GT Hatch
1971 Cutlass
1967 Chevelle
1975 Trans Am
1966 C20 Long Bed
1999 F150
User avatar
Cuttyman9
Club Member
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
Location: NorCal

PreviousNext

Return to Handling and Braking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests