Hub Project to make us wheel options (5/100 to 114.3)

CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Just got the alltrac hub in today.

I am going to "barrow" a hub puller this week and get them both out.

Then I am going over to my friends to use some measuring calipers and gauges to get the exact dimensions.

The axels look to be the same. But I am going to try a better comparison maybe with mr2 axels.

I am hoping the offset stays the same then a 2 peice rotor with the 114 bolt pattern can be used.

I really cant tell much till I pull them out. The deciding factor is how everything fits inside the carrier.

I will keep you all posted.

Special thanks to C-dub for the hub. I will ship it back as soon as I get some measurments.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Well here is the first update. Even though I have not been able to measure them yet, it is obvious the hub for the camry has a larger diameter. With both its larger dia. and center bore, I do not think we can use the alltrac brakes at all. Also, since the size is larger, I do not think the stock caliper location will work either. I think the outside of the hat will hit the caliper or get really damn close.

So, a brake solution will have to be made at the same time.

I will keep you all posted.
 
G

gtfour77

New member
Now the question is.....Did you use the V6 camry hubs or 4 cyl? Are they the same? So we know the alltrac axles fit the camry hub...correct?
I have custom wilwood big brakes so that would not be an issue....and I am sure custom brackets could be made for the stock setup...
Also, are you trying to use the whole hub assembly or just the hub itself? Could the hub diameter be machined down to the alltrac specs?
I know, a lot of questions and comments...keep us posted.... :wink:
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
I used the ES300 hubs, which would be the same as a V6 camry.

The hub might be able to be machined down on the face side, but the studs are further out. I am afraid the studs are too far out to fit.

I think custom hats are the first step.

From h&r hubs specs it shows the mr2/supra/camry to have the same siized hub dia. and bolt patter, and center bore.

So does anyone want to compare mr2/alltrac caliper munting points? I have a feeling we are going to have to use mr2 rotors for the project as a cheap solution. The stock calipers may fit, but I am nott sure how close the hat will sit to the caliper.

I am still unsure how the offset will be affected. I will not be able to determine this till I pull the hub. My only real concern is the size of the inside. If it is too large for the carrier, I am sure it can be machined own to fit. I would prefer the offset to stay the same, and no machining required. Just brake mods.

We are currently in the middle of a celica meet.... but only one person with a celica showed up :( so I might get the thre people who are here to help me out with this hub project. I still have to take the hubs to a friends who has calipers and other measuing devices to figure this out.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Here are the specs for an sw20 front brake rotor. Per:
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/Mk2_vs_Mk1.html

Pad Area in.² (cm²)
7.60 (49) x 2 x 2

Wheel Cylinder Dia. in. (mm)
1.44 (36.5)

Rotor Size (DxT)¹ in.(mm)
10.16 (258)
x 0.98 (25)

vs All trac dia.

277 millimeters = 10.90549 inches

So, it looks like we have a large rotor. Perhaps the solution is using the rotor hats for an mr2 and using our own seperate disc.

Once I figure out the depth and other details of the hubs, I will let you all know.
 
G

gtfour77

New member
Did you say the studs are further out? Do you mean that the offset will change with this mod? I am just not quite sure what you mean...

By the way, where is your celica meet??? Was it posted here? I am in WV but would have liked to come... oh well, maybe next time...
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Its here in Knoxville. It was supposed to be a dragon run, but my celica is still being put together initial D blew his head gasket and there is one guy who lives here with a celica. Everyone else had something come up.

So its a Z, a monte carlos and a celica gt. :twisted:

Worst Celica Meet EVAR...

Anyway. By further out I mean further away from the center bore of the hub. The stud dia is further than that of the celica.

This would not effect offset, since this is on the x/y axis not the z axis.
(facing the hub, left right/up down.)
 
G

gtfour77

New member
Oh ok...well thank you for the clarification... well that makes sense, they're exactly 14.3.. further out... Thus making it 114.3 x 5 lug pattern....
So why are you doing this conversion? In my case i am trying to fit the 5Zigen 17x9 wheels on my celi. They only make them in 5x114.3 and the only solution is to change the front bolt pattern to 5x114.3
For the rear I am going with an adaptor, we need the 25mm spacer in the back anyway... (25mm adaptor with 5x100 to 5x114.3 bolt pattern)
As for the meet, hey, at least someone showed up right? You guys enjoy the weather!!! Today is perfect for a meet!!
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
We might go down to crossville and drag the Z in the 1/8th for a celica meet. :p

I am having to work for most of the meet anyway.

Anyway. I am doing it for more wheel options that are affordable. For as much as this swap is going to cost me, it will save me $$ in the long run. I only paid 20 bucks for both lexus hubs. So if they are a direct fit, I just got to do custom brakes. I had planned a BBK anyway, so that is not really an added expense. Same with rear spacers. If a person planned rear spacers anyway, then buying an adapter in the same width would not be much of an added expense. I think a reason for keeping the rears the same is to make brakes easier, and so tires can be rotated.

My goal is to be able to fit 17x9 in the front and in the rear. There are plenty of wheels that are close to specs but the bolt pattern is what stands in our way.

If I was to manage to afford the center active diff, I would also do the rear hubs and run some 17x10s in the rear w/ some 275's and 255's on the 17x9 in the front. :evil:
 
G

gtfour77

New member
Very cool, then we're both in the same boat...
What wheels are you considering? I only need this for autocross...I'll be running 17x9's with 275 hoosiers all the way around..
I test fitted a wheel today....5Ziegen 17x8 with 35 offset and it fit just right with very littleroom to spare in the rear of the rim...(running koni's with 2.5" sleeves and coilovers... I am not sure how it would fit with the stock spring perches...)
Hoping the 17x9 with either 30 or 20 offset will be perfect... I think I am going to go with the 5Ziegen FN01R-C....but the only bolt pattern the have in 17x9 is the 5x114.3.... about $200 a piece...
Do you have any other ideas for a lightweight rim in that width? Everything else I looked at was more money and heavier wheel....
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Awdios has 17x9 30et racing dynamics. They custom made them for our bolt pattern.

I really like the SE37K from volk. I have not decided on a rim yet. I did concider the 5zigen FN01r-c. I also like their pro racer wheel.

I have not decided on a wheel, but I want a set for street, autox, and maybe rally x.

I will most likely get the cheapest lightest wheel I can for autox. It won't end up on the street so I don't have to worry about bending the wheel.
 
G

gtfour77

New member
I have seen the 5Zigens for as low as $189.99....I think that is so far the best deal...still searching.... :D
Team Dynamics are about $225 or so...hoping they are still on sale....and are heavier from what I understand...
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
The 5zigen run on ebay around 650-750 for a set. YOu have to get the EVO setup. 17x9 35 et. Should still work. I would love to run the 17x10 version they have. I prefer the dipped look, but I doubt the offset and width would fit very well.
 
K

Kyoto

New member
I have a set of 16" Buddy Club P1s with an offset of 43. I don't have aproblem with lipping/rolling the guards but can anyone see any forseeable problems with using spacer/hub converters on a daily basis? As long as i make sure to re-torque the adaptors ever 5,000-10,000km i wouldnt see a problem this. I'll obviously need a custom brake setup but i planned this at some stage anyway.

Can anyone shed light on this. Problem is the wheels are getting difficult to source and i picked these up at half price...

Havn't read this thread ofr a while but i'll have a quick browse to see if there is an easier or cheaper way. Perhaps biggest benefit i can see of going to 5x114.3 is the wider choice of brake and wheels combos, ie Skyline, GTR, etc...
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
I plan on pulling the hubs once AI go to the store to resnt some other tools as well. Sorry for the hold up. I would expect it to be closer to the weekend till I hae an idea.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
This will all have to wait till after the new year and after the car is running. Depending if this changes offset will deterine the brakes we can use.

Check out the supra conversion brake faq.
http://alltrac.net/tuning/brakefaq.html

The offset may be the only issue. I will know for shore once I pull everything. I bet we could just pick up some supra rotors, a spacer and fab a bracket for a caliper of some sort as an easy solution.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
Got the supra brakes today.

Here are some pics. As soon as I have some free time, I will go get a hub puller and compare these hubs.

Supra brakes fit perfect on the camry hub.

dscn29889os.jpg


Here is the front of the hub carrier of the camry and alltrac(right).

dscn29890qa.jpg


And rear.
dscn29909mp.jpg


I will keep everone posted on my progress.
 
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