165 top feed injector options EXPOSED!

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165 top feed injector options EXPOSED!

Postby ion_four » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:45 pm

Someone was asking about this, but I lost the thread. In short, it seems that Honda/DSM injectors will work on the 165 top feed rail!

The pictures compare an injector from a ~92-95 Honda Civic D16Z6 to the measurements of a ST165 stock injector. The Honda injector is slightly larger in every measurement, which means it should seal fine, except that it might need a slightly thicker spacer, or a washer put under the spacer, since it doesn't need to seal. Guess who's ordering some bigger Honda/DSM injectors? :)


Overall length of 165 injector is shown on caliper...as a side note, the injector is longer but does NOT appear to protrude into the intake port path:
Image
Length of 165 from top to grommet is shown on caliper:
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Length of 165 injector from spacer to grommet is shown on caliper:
Image
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Postby gearhead313 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:20 pm

So basicly they are bosch style injectors.... ebay here i come!
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#3193 - fail
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#4598 - sold to Canada eh
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1988 Toyota Celica

Injectors

Postby ion_four » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:44 pm

yeah, they aren't indentical, but close enough that I don't see why they wouldn't work! They are within a couple mm in length, fit in the head grommets and fit in the fuel rail. That's what I'm doing when I upgrade injectors, as soon as I find a deal.
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Postby Mafix » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:54 pm

ding RC 550 here i come. mabye grind the rail mounts down a bit to fit tighter.
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Postby nfn15037 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:15 am

Oh, I should have posted this. I am using my RC 750s from my old Honda project in my 165. I thought it was common knowledge! :) They work with zero mods to the 165 head or fuel rail.
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Postby Rick89GTS » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:59 am

Good stuff for future reference. Good work :)
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Postby ion_four » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:13 am

ding RC 550 here i come. mabye grind the rail mounts down a bit to fit tighter.


I dunno...I would just stick a washer in between the injector and the injector->rail spacer...IF it's necessary...it might not even be needed if the injector sits far enough in the rail. I didn't try because I just moved across town and could only find one Honda injector in my piles of boxes...

Oh, I should have posted this. I am using my RC 750s from my old Honda project in my 165. I thought it was common knowledge! They work with zero mods to the 165 head or fuel rail.


Yeah, I figured they would fit, but I thought this would be good proof, aside from someone ACTUALLY running them ;) Awesome that it requires zero mods. Did you replace the o-rings/grommets/spacers? It seems like mine, at least, would need to be replaced to really tighten things up.

Good stuff for future reference. Good work


Thanks! So, I guess the question is will ANY injectors that fit on a DSM work for us? I'd guess so, but the PTE injectors I've seen for the DSMs look kind of odd...though, they are cheap!
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Postby //Zee-Roh// » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:31 am

Are 550's drop in (assuming I get the ATS racing modified fuel rail as well)? Or do I need to tune for it? Would it just run at a lower duty cycle? I'm only shooting for 300hp guys..... :cry:
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Postby nfn15037 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:52 pm

I used the upper o-rings that came with the injectors (got some new ones from the auto parts store) and the lower ones I got new from Toyota and jammed the RCs into them. They fit well, I'll let you know how they work if the car ever gets started, but I have pressurized the system and no leaks from the rail.
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Postby hacker_720 » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:32 pm

this is great news, can we get this sticked or FYIed. thanks.
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Physical drop-in, but requires tuning

Postby ion_four » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:38 pm

Are 550's drop in (assuming I get the ATS racing modified fuel rail as well)? Or do I need to tune for it? Would it just run at a lower duty cycle? I'm only shooting for 300hp guys.....


The injectors physically drop in, but the ECU won't know anything has changed, so it will be dumping in 550/440cc more fuel. You'll have to get an ecu reflash (though I don't know of anyone offering this for the 165 ECU), stand-alone EMS or piggy-back, such as the S-AFC, GReddy e-Manage or similar.

Also, I don't see any reason to get a modified fuel rail on a 165, unless you're going for WELL over 400whp. The passage in the top-feed rail is easily twice the cross section as the side-feed rail so it should flow enough for quite a bit of power.

used the upper o-rings that came with the injectors (got some new ones from the auto parts store) and the lower ones I got new from Toyota and jammed the RCs into them. They fit well, I'll let you know how they work if the car ever gets started, but I have pressurized the system and no leaks from the rail.


If they don't leak, it should work, though under XXpsi boost the fuel pressure will be XXpsi more, too. Also, did you 750's require a resistor pack on the Integra? If not, then they are high-impedence, and I'd wager the 165 injectors are low-impedence, though I haven't measured, and this might make for bad times with the ECU.
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Postby Mafix » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:37 am

165's are low impedence but easily gotten either way...low or high. also you can get balanced too. so....if this is the case then from my current knowledge.

HONDA injectors will work
DSM injectors will work
FORD BOSCH injectors will work with spacers (about 1/2" worth)
of course TOYOTA will work
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Postby Mafix » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:38 am

STICKY PLEASE!!! also Ion...you may want to put that into the title. or we can repost this in the FYI section.
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Re: Physical drop-in, but requires tuning

Postby nfn15037 » Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:32 am

ion_four wrote:Also, did you 750's require a resistor pack on the Integra? If not, then they are high-impedence, and I'd wager the 165 injectors are low-impedence, though I haven't measured, and this might make for bad times with the ECU.


No, they are high impedance. I am running a standalone anyways. If you remove the stock Toyota resistor pack and run high impedance injectors directly from the ECU they will be fine.
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Postby alltrac.net » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:47 am

RC already sells replacements for ST165s. Basic top feed replacements. I had RC 550s on my ST165 in 1999. If you have the money, that is the way to go, done.

The easiest/cheapest upgrade is RX7 550s. Uses the same injector clip and drops in. They ARE high impedance, but still work.
ST165, then ST165, then ST185, then ST165.

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