SMT-6 installed!

Talk EMS and Computer related performance

Postby Zeus » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 pm

chris_dittrick wrote:Thats what I'm hoping for! :D

A couple people have made it there already, Les in Toronto with his 205 swap, and another guy in eastern europe. But I definitely think there are going to be some very quick cars surfacing next season...I'm thinking your car will be right up there too! :smokes:


hmmm first 2nd gen motor? i guess we need to specify now lol

and thanks man... im thinking all i really need is my front mount to be there myself
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Postby Weasy2k » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:03 pm

jhull wrote:yeah I have a map loaded its nothing special just to get it to fire and start its base pulse is at 15degrees, problem is spark is irradic doesnt fire every revolution only fires about 2 out of 10 revolutions like i said when it sparks alot of the times it goes to start but im cranking for 5 min before i get it to start. because the spark just isnt there.


Perfect, Here is a test that one of the guys a PP wants you to do for him.

I think it is best we work by a process of elimination here, from you information I am almost certain your output wiring is 100%, but I first want to confirm it, put it to bed so we don't have to worry about it again. Got a little trick here, take your ignition outputs and assign them to injector outputs, turn ignition on but don't crank. The prime cycles of the injectors should make the ignition spark, does this happen?

Let me know! 8)
-Johnny
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Postby jhull » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:34 pm

yes outputs are correct. i also have injector noids. all outputs are right on. I already checked each one individually by turning them on and off to verify all outputs were working as they are suppost to. deffiently a issue with cam sensor being to weak this is what pp told me last year, and when hooked up to a scope it also verifies that the signal is very weak. cranks a lot higher signal sence its 24 teeth but cam is only one tooth and doesnt have a output that the prs likes to see when cranking. again once started its fine! sparks great, but while cranking spark isnt there often because the signal is to low. im sure u know the signal is amplified by turning speed the faster the trigger is turning the better the signal hence why during cranking it doesnt spark well but once running and ideling @1000rpms its steady and sparks perfect. because the signal is now up sence its spinning faster. im still unsure if the ignitor could amplify the signal im still trying to research the exact job the ignitor is soppost to do so i can figure out what it will do with the prs. I would like to go with stock cam/crank sensors, and didnt know if there was a solution for doing this yet. im guessing not :( im not going to do a crank trigger wheel. so im forced to either try to get a ignitor to amplify or modify another dizzy to fit in the 3s head and work cam/crank :doh: i wish it could be something so dumb as a output, would save me a lot of work. keep the suggestions coming maybe we will descover something.
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Postby ChrisD » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:42 pm

I took the car out for some spirited driving over the weekend, with the laptop hooked up to the SMT6. It seems that my AFM is damn near maxed out. Not that I can't get more power out of it, however, just that it is almost fully open. At WOT, the flapper door got down to 2.7%. 0% = fully open, 100% = fully closed. This might make tuning a little more tricky to make sure that part throttle acceleration is not sacrificed in my tuning. I plan to do the following:

-tighten the AFM a few clicks to possibly give me a little more adjustability in the upper load points.

-Adjust the deflection (load) points on the SMT6. If I give myself more columns to tune at the higher load points, I should be able to better adjust between WOT and partial throttle. So instead of having 0%, 9%, 18%, 27%, etc., I would have maybe 2%, 6%, 10%, 15%, 21%, etc., and have fewer load points in the low load sections, since they are barely used except for idle really. Once I do my real tuning I will figure out what works best.

I also confirmed that a positive # on the analog (fuel) map REMOVES fuel, and a negative number ADDS fuel. I could tell this easily on the narrow band o2 sensor, as well as listening to the engine.

Lastly I did get a chance to play with the timing functions as well. This seems to work great. I played a little with advancing the timing at lower load/rpm points which seemed to work quite nicely. I did run into the problem of having too few load points at the upper load sections. But thats something I should easily be able to deal with once I begin wide band tuning with bigger injectors and more boost.

Anyways, just a quick update on how this device works. So far, I'm really happy with it! I can't wait to get to some real tuning. :D
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Postby Zeus » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:12 am

tunning sure is fun!

ive learned more in the last couple weeks than in the last couple years!
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Postby ChrisD » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:45 pm

Zeus wrote:tunning sure is fun!

ive learned more in the last couple weeks than in the last couple years!


No kidding! It's amazing how much you learn-by-doing with this. I am really excited to start some wide band tuning! :D

I'll keep updating you guys as I progress with this. I'll also do a street dyno after tuning is finished.
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Postby Weasy2k » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:37 pm

Thanks for the updates chris,
Good to see things are running smoothly like they are supposed to :P
Enjoy the tuning process!
-Johnny
1991 Mr2 Turbo
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Postby jhull » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:37 am

john,
wanted to update you that i got the msd-8509 in and installed it and spark is perfect! anyone looking to go with a prs unit save urself some time and get one msd-8509 before installation for the cam signal the unit only cost about $80.00 usd. and converts the weak cam signal to a stronger square wave signal. im sure other ems units need it as well. the issue isnt the prs unit but the stock cam signal is really weak! ems is fun!
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Postby Weasy2k » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:19 am

jhull wrote:john,
wanted to update you that i got the msd-8509 in and installed it and spark is perfect! anyone looking to go with a prs unit save urself some time and get one msd-8509 before installation for the cam signal the unit only cost about $80.00 usd. and converts the weak cam signal to a stronger square wave signal. im sure other ems units need it as well. the issue isnt the prs unit but the stock cam signal is really weak! ems is fun!


Awsome! SO that was answer to the issue....good to hear!(writing that one down)
-Johnny
1991 Mr2 Turbo
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SMT6 maps

Postby 3sgte4me » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:53 am

Hi,

I just bought one these units for my 1st Gen. I actually got hooked on it because of my SRT-4.

Anyhow, short of f'ing things up, Chris do you have a "base map" that can be used with the vehicle?

And I have a few questions. I have an HKS FCON, a supra turbo, and 550cc injectors, and Id like to figure out what its going to take to make 300HP- i.e. at least keep up with a stock wrx or my srt-4. Does this imply internal engine changes as well?

I increased the scope of my questions, but I have goal of 300hp, but need some advice in terms of solid mods using an smt6
My house, my wife, even my right nut can disappear, but never again will I give up my Alltrac.
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Re: SMT6 maps

Postby Weasy2k » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:01 am

3sgte4me wrote:Hi,

I just bought one these units for my 1st Gen. I actually got hooked on it because of my SRT-4.

Anyhow, short of f'ing things up, Chris do you have a "base map" that can be used with the vehicle?

And I have a few questions. I have an HKS FCON, a supra turbo, and 550cc injectors, and Id like to figure out what its going to take to make 300HP- i.e. at least keep up with a stock wrx or my srt-4. Does this imply internal engine changes as well?

I increased the scope of my questions, but I have goal of 300hp, but need some advice in terms of solid mods using an smt6


You can abtain 300whp with the SMT6 550cc injectors, CT20b, (or modded CT26 Supra Turbo), and a SUpra fuel pump (or equivlent) to be able to run around the 300whp area....
Also a adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be nice as well. The 550cc runs out of breath around the 310ish WHP so keep an eye on the AFR.
(make sure you have a wideband to tune with)
-Johnny
1991 Mr2 Turbo
Sea2Sky Tuning
Perfect Power SMT6/7 Dealer
www.sea2skytuning.com
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Making the wise choice

Postby 3sgte4me » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:44 am

Thanks for your response.

In terms of the modded CT26 Supra turbo what does that enatil.

Also the car easily has 115K miles on it but is super clean.

The head gasket etc, can be kept stock or ??

Also The downpipe and other components can be kept stock as well?

So let me get this straight- fuel pump, injectors, the smt 6

what will allow you to boost more- is that my HKS components or should I leave those out of the equation?
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Re: Making the wise choice

Postby Weasy2k » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:05 am

3sgte4me wrote:Thanks for your response.

In terms of the modded CT26 Supra turbo what does that enatil.

Also the car easily has 115K miles on it but is super clean.

The head gasket etc, can be kept stock or ??

Also The downpipe and other components can be kept stock as well?

So let me get this straight- fuel pump, injectors, the smt 6

what will allow you to boost more- is that my HKS components or should I leave those out of the equation?


It probably has a 60trim wheel on it which pritty much keeps your boost at 15psi all the way till redline vs dieing off at like 5k rpm.

I am not sure what the difference between GEN I 3s and the GEN II are but from what i understand if the stock injectors are the same as the GENII (440cc) then the supra turbo will not have enough guts to lean out the stock fuel system. I may be wrong i will let chris come in on this one becuase i am still learning about the 3s Generatoins :P

As far as opening your engine up...no..you wont need to unless something si wrong inside, people have pushed over 400whp without opening the engine up so you have noting to worry about.

Fuel pump, injectors, and the smt6/7 is the base for fuel upgrades :P
-Johnny
1991 Mr2 Turbo
Sea2Sky Tuning
Perfect Power SMT6/7 Dealer
www.sea2skytuning.com
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Re: Making the wise choice

Postby ChrisD » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:41 pm

Weasy2k wrote:It probably has a 60trim wheel on it which pritty much keeps your boost at 15psi all the way till redline vs dieing off at like 5k rpm.

I am not sure what the difference between GEN I 3s and the GEN II are but from what i understand if the stock injectors are the same as the GENII (440cc) then the supra turbo will not have enough guts to lean out the stock fuel system. I may be wrong i will let chris come in on this one becuase i am still learning about the 3s Generatoins :P

As far as opening your engine up...no..you wont need to unless something si wrong inside, people have pushed over 400whp without opening the engine up so you have noting to worry about.

Fuel pump, injectors, and the smt6/7 is the base for fuel upgrades :P


Gen 1 3s has a top feed fuel rail and injectors, versus the side feed of the gen 2. They are both 440cc/min however. Leaning out on that turbo is difficult, but can be done. Depends on what duty cycle you like to run. Stock ECU will go all the way to pretty much 100% when AFM is wide open.

People can get away without rebuilding, however most of the time the engine gets "opened up" to change to a MHG at that power.

:)

I can give more info if needed.
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Postby pog0 » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:32 am

chris,

how much did you pay for your smt6? considering a piggy back again if its cheap and this looks like it is MUCH better than the VPC setup I had. I have seen that most of them sell for about 200-250 on the mr2 board with the quick search but nothin too much over that... let me know dude.
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