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Megasquirt FAQ, writeup (Updated 30/10/09)
- Thread starter tw2
- Start date
I emailed diyautotune who said that you can use the 4 stepper idle wires as programmable outputs. I am not sure exactly how but it sounds like a really good idea. Perfect for TVIS especially on a 3.57 board which doesn't have room for add ons.
On another note it seems really easy to make new ignition leads. I have been playing around with the idea for a while. I pulled my ford leads apart the other day and leads in general are really easy to crimp fittings onto. For anyone who hasn't pulled one apart they have about 3mm of insulation and a 2mm conducting core in the middle which simply bends under the insulation and the fitting is crimped over the top.
You could do the crimp with pliers if you wanted, some people have done ok with them. Next best is a generic ignition crimp tool which is part of most general electrical tools. The best is the proper W forming tool. Any autoelectric shop should be able to crimp it on the stock leads for $10 or so to have it done properly.
Take care if pulling leads apart. I assumed I could easily get replacement metal fittings for the ends... not the case. There are generic ones but not the same proper ones with the bend. You might have to reuse the ones from the donor leads.
I will post a how to once I actually get onto doing it. Here is a really good resource though to get an idea on lead construction and general crimping techniques. MSD have a block of metal you put the lead inside and crank in a vice. This is an excellent way of doing it if you go MDS.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-msd-ignwires.htm
My ford leads were around US$20 and new generic fittings/terminals were $0.60 for all four. Pretty cheap way of getting around the problem. The boots are the only really necessary part for a clean job.
On another note it seems really easy to make new ignition leads. I have been playing around with the idea for a while. I pulled my ford leads apart the other day and leads in general are really easy to crimp fittings onto. For anyone who hasn't pulled one apart they have about 3mm of insulation and a 2mm conducting core in the middle which simply bends under the insulation and the fitting is crimped over the top.
You could do the crimp with pliers if you wanted, some people have done ok with them. Next best is a generic ignition crimp tool which is part of most general electrical tools. The best is the proper W forming tool. Any autoelectric shop should be able to crimp it on the stock leads for $10 or so to have it done properly.
Take care if pulling leads apart. I assumed I could easily get replacement metal fittings for the ends... not the case. There are generic ones but not the same proper ones with the bend. You might have to reuse the ones from the donor leads.
I will post a how to once I actually get onto doing it. Here is a really good resource though to get an idea on lead construction and general crimping techniques. MSD have a block of metal you put the lead inside and crank in a vice. This is an excellent way of doing it if you go MDS.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-msd-ignwires.htm
My ford leads were around US$20 and new generic fittings/terminals were $0.60 for all four. Pretty cheap way of getting around the problem. The boots are the only really necessary part for a clean job.
pit_celica
Member
Just to keep you updated guys :
This winter, I redid my engine wiring harness. The car runs well, but I cannot get the following things to work :
-IAC valve : I have the PWM mod done to my v3.0 MSII board and I can modulate the valve opening while idling, but even when it's set to 100% PWM (0% = fully open), the valve isn't shut totally. I tried to add a 40 ohms, 50 watts resistor on the RSC pin. The lowest idle speed I was able to reach was 1500 RPM with the throttle body screw removed (lowest throttle body screw setting possible). So, I came to the conclusion that my IAC isn't the same as other 3SGTE gens IAC and cannot be fully closed by the MSII. So, I run a 1200 idle for now and I tuned warm-up enrichment so I can idle the car without IAC even on cold mornings.
-Electric fan control : I used the JS2 pin (IAC2A port) to trigger an automotive relay to run a spal rad fan. I want it to be set like this :
1-when the coolant temp is higher than 200°F with a 5°F hysteresis
AND
2-when the engine's RPM is higher than 600 RPM (to not start the fan when cranking).
I've set the port to PT7 (IAC2A = JS2)
Power-on value = 0
Triggered value =1
I've wired the JS2 port directly to the pin 85 (- coil side) of my relay exactly like this diagram minus the transistor, diode and resistor because I'm running it directly :
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/SpareCircuit.gif
Now, the problem is that when the MS-II is plugged in my wiring harness, the JS2 pin is grounded automatically (the key is not even at ACC or ON position, the ECU is completely off). This means that the fan will run when the car is off. And when the ECU is on (key is siwtched to ON position), it's no more grounded, but I got continuity between battery + and this JS2 wire...
What did I do wrong... I'm supposed to received ground from this JS2 pin when the spare output is triggered on which means that the conditions are met (coolant > 200°F and RPM > 600 RPM).
Let me know if you have any ideas. Forget about the IAC problem, I'll simply run no idle control for now until I can afford a kind of PWM industrial in-line air valve.
Thanks
Sam
This winter, I redid my engine wiring harness. The car runs well, but I cannot get the following things to work :
-IAC valve : I have the PWM mod done to my v3.0 MSII board and I can modulate the valve opening while idling, but even when it's set to 100% PWM (0% = fully open), the valve isn't shut totally. I tried to add a 40 ohms, 50 watts resistor on the RSC pin. The lowest idle speed I was able to reach was 1500 RPM with the throttle body screw removed (lowest throttle body screw setting possible). So, I came to the conclusion that my IAC isn't the same as other 3SGTE gens IAC and cannot be fully closed by the MSII. So, I run a 1200 idle for now and I tuned warm-up enrichment so I can idle the car without IAC even on cold mornings.
-Electric fan control : I used the JS2 pin (IAC2A port) to trigger an automotive relay to run a spal rad fan. I want it to be set like this :
1-when the coolant temp is higher than 200°F with a 5°F hysteresis
AND
2-when the engine's RPM is higher than 600 RPM (to not start the fan when cranking).
I've set the port to PT7 (IAC2A = JS2)
Power-on value = 0
Triggered value =1
I've wired the JS2 port directly to the pin 85 (- coil side) of my relay exactly like this diagram minus the transistor, diode and resistor because I'm running it directly :
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/SpareCircuit.gif
Now, the problem is that when the MS-II is plugged in my wiring harness, the JS2 pin is grounded automatically (the key is not even at ACC or ON position, the ECU is completely off). This means that the fan will run when the car is off. And when the ECU is on (key is siwtched to ON position), it's no more grounded, but I got continuity between battery + and this JS2 wire...
What did I do wrong... I'm supposed to received ground from this JS2 pin when the spare output is triggered on which means that the conditions are met (coolant > 200°F and RPM > 600 RPM).
Let me know if you have any ideas. Forget about the IAC problem, I'll simply run no idle control for now until I can afford a kind of PWM industrial in-line air valve.
Thanks
Sam
If I was you, I would just change the activation off the relay, so i triggers on 12v and not ground. That would solve it.
I think its the same idle valve on all toyotas from that time. Did it have any effect to put a resistor? I was getting high idle until I put in the resistor. The resistor is getting pretty hot, so i burns alot of energi.
Sure you have done your pwm mod right, have you remember to seal ground on pcb and put the wires correctly to the Tip120?
I think its the same idle valve on all toyotas from that time. Did it have any effect to put a resistor? I was getting high idle until I put in the resistor. The resistor is getting pretty hot, so i burns alot of energi.
Sure you have done your pwm mod right, have you remember to seal ground on pcb and put the wires correctly to the Tip120?
pit_celica
Member
I'll check if I really get +12V when the conditions are met. When I checked, I believe it was +12V as soon as the MSII was at on position and it was grounded when MS-II was off.
For the idle valve, using the resistor has no effect at all. I'm pretty sure that my valve doesn't work the same as other 3SGTE valve or maybe mine is broken because of this :
-In the BGB, there is a test that can be done to see if the IAC valve is working : sending +12V to the center pin of the valve and sending RSC to ground. The BGB says that the valve is now suppose to be closed because RSC is to ground. But in my case, when I put RSC to ground, the valve 'click', it goes to the closed position and come back to his normal position right away. I cannot get the valve to stay in the closed position only by sending ground to RSC and +12V at the center pin.
This is like if I would need a 'grounded PWM' to trigger the RSC coil to keep the valve closed, not only a constant ground.
BTW, what value are you using for the PWM frequency Hz? In my Megatune, I cannot set anything other than 160 Hz... Everytime I want to enter another value (120 by example), the MS-II doesn't allow it and the 160 value always come back...
Anyway, this weekend I'll check if the JS2 pin send +12V when conditions are met and if it does, I'll simply rewire my relay like you said.
For the IAC valve, if you have any input, I'm open!
Thanks
Sam
For the idle valve, using the resistor has no effect at all. I'm pretty sure that my valve doesn't work the same as other 3SGTE valve or maybe mine is broken because of this :
-In the BGB, there is a test that can be done to see if the IAC valve is working : sending +12V to the center pin of the valve and sending RSC to ground. The BGB says that the valve is now suppose to be closed because RSC is to ground. But in my case, when I put RSC to ground, the valve 'click', it goes to the closed position and come back to his normal position right away. I cannot get the valve to stay in the closed position only by sending ground to RSC and +12V at the center pin.
This is like if I would need a 'grounded PWM' to trigger the RSC coil to keep the valve closed, not only a constant ground.
BTW, what value are you using for the PWM frequency Hz? In my Megatune, I cannot set anything other than 160 Hz... Everytime I want to enter another value (120 by example), the MS-II doesn't allow it and the 160 value always come back...
Anyway, this weekend I'll check if the JS2 pin send +12V when conditions are met and if it does, I'll simply rewire my relay like you said.
For the IAC valve, if you have any input, I'm open!
Thanks
Sam
Sounds like you could use another firmware version, you should be able to choose another setting in pwm hz. Can you try to upload your msq. (Just do it on msextra.com, cause this forum doesnt accept msq files)
I think that something could be wrong with your pwm valve. It is a 3 wire valve, right?
I think that something could be wrong with your pwm valve. It is a 3 wire valve, right?
pit_celica
Member
Yes, it's a 3 wire valve. Maybe it's broken... I don't know and I don't care. I searching for an inline on/off valve like this one :
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 2761.l1259
Unfortunately, this one doesn't work because it will not hold boost (it will leak under boost). I'm currently searching another valve.
I've already tried a Toyota VSV for an on/off idle valve, but it cannot be completely closed under vacuum at idle, it let air enter in...
If you have an idea, I'm open. I do not want PWM or IAC, simply a on/off valve that can remain closed under vacuum and pressure will do the trick.
Here's my .msq file. I'm using MS-II v3.0 with firmware v2.888.
http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/2f921814f7_0.02MB
I was able to get the electric fan control working by rewiring the relay. Now, when conditions are met, the JS2 pin send +12V to the + coil side of the relay. Everything works correct.
The other thing that I discovered is that JS2 pin = PT6 and JS0 pin = PT7 in the spare outputs droplist. I was assuming that it was the opposite, but it's not.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 2761.l1259
Unfortunately, this one doesn't work because it will not hold boost (it will leak under boost). I'm currently searching another valve.
I've already tried a Toyota VSV for an on/off idle valve, but it cannot be completely closed under vacuum at idle, it let air enter in...
If you have an idea, I'm open. I do not want PWM or IAC, simply a on/off valve that can remain closed under vacuum and pressure will do the trick.
Here's my .msq file. I'm using MS-II v3.0 with firmware v2.888.
http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/2f921814f7_0.02MB
I was able to get the electric fan control working by rewiring the relay. Now, when conditions are met, the JS2 pin send +12V to the + coil side of the relay. Everything works correct.
The other thing that I discovered is that JS2 pin = PT6 and JS0 pin = PT7 in the spare outputs droplist. I was assuming that it was the opposite, but it's not.
The other thing that I discovered is that JS2 pin = PT6 and JS0 pin = PT7 in the spare outputs droplist. I was assuming that it was the opposite, but it's not.
JS1 is the opposite of JS0 and JS3 of JS2.
I bought a on/off valve from VDO when i did my supra with ms. Worked fine.
But a vsv shouldnt leak, I am pretty sure it should stay 100% closed.
pit_celica
Member
Does a VTV has a dedicated inlet or outlet? I used the bottom nipple has the inlet (air is sucked by this nipple at the bottom), the top nipple was connected to the intake manifold. This way, it was leaking when closed (de-energized)(this VTV is normally closed).
Maybe I could try it the other way : top nipple sucking air and bottom nipple connected to intake manifold.
I'll take a look at VDO and DIYautotune.
Thanks all!
Sam
Maybe I could try it the other way : top nipple sucking air and bottom nipple connected to intake manifold.
I'll take a look at VDO and DIYautotune.
Thanks all!
Sam
pit_celica
Member
Ok, I finally was able to use the Turbo VSV as my fast idle valve. I was wrong about the inlet/outlet nipple last time. The bottom nipple need to be connected to intake manifold and the top nipple goes to the filter. Now, I finally have some idle control : 1200 RPM until coolant is higher than 140°F and a solid 1000 RPM idle when the engine is hot.
Today, I'm gonna finish the tuning of the ve table (high RPM, 12 psi) and I'll try the EGO PID control for the cruising section.
The car now pulls really great! I simply love it! I raced against my buddys 06 WRX and I won both times on a 40 km/h rolling start. But he kicked my ass on a launch start (remember, I got a GT-S FWD, not a GT4...).
Anyway, the car never run that great in 3 years! I finally enjoy the car!
I'll keep you updated on the EGO control PID. If you have any clue on this, let me know!
Thanks
Sam
Today, I'm gonna finish the tuning of the ve table (high RPM, 12 psi) and I'll try the EGO PID control for the cruising section.
The car now pulls really great! I simply love it! I raced against my buddys 06 WRX and I won both times on a 40 km/h rolling start. But he kicked my ass on a launch start (remember, I got a GT-S FWD, not a GT4...).
Anyway, the car never run that great in 3 years! I finally enjoy the car!
I'll keep you updated on the EGO control PID. If you have any clue on this, let me know!
Thanks
Sam
I am getting closer to MS time. I made a list of what I need to do- its pretty long
1 Weld on IAT threaded bung to manifold
2 Fit trigger wheel- I have everything needed for this
3 Order resistors/diodes etc to make the stock tacho work
4 Make and run the loom for my VR sensor and other EDIS components
5 Buy a second hand set of ignition leads and crimp ford plugs on the end
6 Brackets etc for coil, VR sensor (half way there for this one) and other parts
7 Have st205 throttle body adapter made so I can run it
8 Port out intake manifold
9 Get a freeze plug for distributor hole
10 Make some knock phones
11 Make a shield for crank pulley.... my stock plastic ones disintegrated a long time ago, what is everyones opinion on this? pit_celica are you running without anything covering the VR sensor and trigger wheel? any problems?
1 Weld on IAT threaded bung to manifold
2 Fit trigger wheel- I have everything needed for this
3 Order resistors/diodes etc to make the stock tacho work
4 Make and run the loom for my VR sensor and other EDIS components
5 Buy a second hand set of ignition leads and crimp ford plugs on the end
6 Brackets etc for coil, VR sensor (half way there for this one) and other parts
7 Have st205 throttle body adapter made so I can run it
8 Port out intake manifold
9 Get a freeze plug for distributor hole
10 Make some knock phones
11 Make a shield for crank pulley.... my stock plastic ones disintegrated a long time ago, what is everyones opinion on this? pit_celica are you running without anything covering the VR sensor and trigger wheel? any problems?
pit_celica
Member
No cover over my trigger wheel and sensor setup. It's been like this for 3 years and no problem so far.
Update on my side :
I've updated to MS2Extra v2.1.0 and it's a lot better than normal MS2 :
-16x16 fuel table
-overrun fuel cut
-PID closed loop EGO control (more precise than normal MS2)
-PID closed loop PWM idle control (this part is nearly done, it need some tuning, I'm using a bosch 3 wires PWM valve from a hyundai)
-faster startup (I don't know why, but switching to MS2Extra make the startup faster in any condition, nearly as fast as the stock system)
I've tuned my VE table very precisely at any RPM and MAP that I can run in.
Next steps :
-Tune PID closed-loop PWM idle control
-Install a manual boost controller and up the boost a little
-Tune the ignition map to extract a little more power using knock listening device
Sam
Update on my side :
I've updated to MS2Extra v2.1.0 and it's a lot better than normal MS2 :
-16x16 fuel table
-overrun fuel cut
-PID closed loop EGO control (more precise than normal MS2)
-PID closed loop PWM idle control (this part is nearly done, it need some tuning, I'm using a bosch 3 wires PWM valve from a hyundai)
-faster startup (I don't know why, but switching to MS2Extra make the startup faster in any condition, nearly as fast as the stock system)
I've tuned my VE table very precisely at any RPM and MAP that I can run in.
Next steps :
-Tune PID closed-loop PWM idle control
-Install a manual boost controller and up the boost a little
-Tune the ignition map to extract a little more power using knock listening device
Sam