Tuning and Build help.

Talk EMS and Computer related performance

Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby l0ch0w » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:15 am

4rsnduction wrote:Stock pistons....maybe a little over 350hp before you start gamble with your engine.
More power means more psi which means more heat....stock pistons dont like heat


Stock pistons dont like detonation... has nothing really to do with heat... if you intercooler is doing its job, the heat is not an issue...

Hyper eutectic pistons are very brittle and as you know, brittle metals have a tendancy to shatter rather than to just flex...

You are correct though in that 350 is sort of the area where you begin gambling. I cannot remember the guys name, but there is a 3sgte owner somewhere who is reliably running 500whp on his. But this is a testament to exellent tuning, and lots of anti-knock measures.
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby tubasteve » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:37 am

Good reads. In glade i did.
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby jensenni1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:09 am

Thanks for the reads guys I knew there was a lot going into it, good to hear some of the things that ill need to examine. In reply to the asking about duration and lift, I'm not sure ill see if I can't find the specs in my garage where my records are buried. The rods are eagle h beam and thanks for the heads up about those pistons ill make sure and switch them before anything gets done. What I meant by complete rebuild however is this, I know that one of the shops didn't do to well of a job, I learned this from noticing the intercooler was rewelded at a different angle and was useless because it didn't line up anywhere. I also noticed improper torque on a few of the bolts on my head and a few vaccuum lines where disconnected for no reason. When I confronted them they promptly gave me a 15% discount and refused to fix anything and told me to leave. So in all honesty I'm not quite trusting of the internals. For peace of mind I feel as if a full rebuild is my best option.
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby 4rsnduction » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:06 am

Find a proper engine shop, maybe one with experience building 3S engines
The good shops usually do EVERYTHING in house.
To do everything in house means you need all the big equipment and machines.......little shit box shops cant afford these so they out source to other places and this is where the shop can say "oh we didn't do that, were not responsible for any of these damages"
Any place that does everything in house will have prices slightly leaning towards the expensive side but its well worth the piece of mind.
My engine job was a flat cost of $4.6k which included labor, new genuine parts(all of them), machine use (cleaning, magnaflux ECT.) and a 5year warranty.
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby tubasteve » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:12 am

/\ that is a pretty good warranty for a performance engine, almost too good. even the pistons that i order from big companies because of the stress levels dont offer much of one either way.

was playing with a new app on my phone to find out that its offered on garrett's website

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/webadviser

not calling you out, but maybe down under thats the way they roll

-jr
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby 4rsnduction » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:28 am

If it sexually excites you i can take a picture of my receipt, its printed on there :)
5 year warranty party because the man who built the unit just so happened to own an MR2, partly because i paid an extra $200 to have it extended from 3 years to 5 years.
I got lots of pics :)
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Re: Tuning and Build help.

Postby concealer404 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:07 pm

KORacing wrote:
concealer404 wrote:
KORacing wrote:
How about to start with: AEM discontinued their MR2/Celica 3SGTE EMS.



That's the worst news i've heard all day.

I can safely say the thing i hate the most about my turbo Miata is that damn Hydra. Followed closely by the $275 wideband sensors that Hydra requires.

[edit]

Before that post comes out sounding like an instigation, it's not meant to be, and i apologize if you took it that way, Kris. I haven't heard many bad things about it when used specifically on 3sgtes. Seems i'm part of a large portion of the Miata community that's driven batty by this thing, though.


I have been tuning Hydras since version 2.0, so depending on which one you have, I have probably encountered every issue you can think of, and am aware that there are/were many quirks and they can be frustrating to deal with, especially if you have to rely on someone else to do the tuning. There were definitely ECU related issues on many of the early ones (2.0-2.1), but with the new 2.7 I feel the ECU is 95% there to be THE premium option for anyone going to a standalone under $2k. ,An ECU, however, is only as good as the tune (and tuner) and if there are specific issues you have with the tune on it, they can probably be addressed assuming there isn't some mechanical or electrical issue outside of the tune.

I think Jeremy at Flyinmiata provides a guide to tuning it in yourself, but as many as I have tuned, and as much as I've learned over the past 8 years of tuning these, I can't see the end user arriving at the same tune without some serious time involved to figure out all the nuances of both the specific engine and the EMS.

I sell replacement NTK wideband sensors for $175 fyi. They are indeed more expensive sensors, but they are also more robust if properly installed (never install an O2 sensor pointing up into the exhaust, 10degrees above horizontal downward minimum please!). I've run them for 3-4 years with leaded race fuel used frequently without a problem installed next to the turbo in the downpipe -- where a Bosch LSU4.2 sensor will typically die in 6 months or less due to the extreme heat. The wideband sensor is only really necessary to have in the exhaust on the Hydra while tuning. If the tune is good, no wideband necessary for regular driving, or you can use the stock narrow band o2 for closed loop operation in the absence of the wideband (another thing you can't do with the AEM). I like to tune such that it runs pretty much identical with or without the o2 sensor present. I typically take several days to complete a tune as I don't typically settle for "close enough", and it's really not feasible to get cold start just right in one shot.

One little know fact of tuning is that 90% of the tune is off boost, and not at WOT. Many people focus on the WOT dyno pulls because that is the flashy part of tuning, and you get to see how much power your build makes, but really that is a small part of a complete tune. The goal should always be to run and drive like stock or better (usually better) and just have that extra 100, 200, or 500+hp on tap when you want it.


Agreed on all points.

The problem is... my car runs ALL FM parts, and was actually tuned by Jeremy himself. Twice. :( (I have 2.5)

The whole thing has just left a sour taste in my mouth, and even though it may be irrational to carry over these experiences to the Celica, i'm not real big on the idea of trying Hydra again.

My apologies however, my situation isn't necessarily relevant to the conversation anymore, i apologize for the threadjack. Everyone seems to love what you've done with the Hydra, and the fact that you care enough to give these explanations in this thread shows that anyone who chooses it here would be well supported. :)
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