e85 tune?

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e85 tune?

Postby c 45 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:38 am

not sure if this is the right location for this post but ill give it a shot so my car bogs out from what i believe is to be casused from fuel cut off safety not sure the appropriate solution for this problem but have been thinking about an fuel system upgrade pump and injectors and i know i need to get the ecu mapped for e85 has anyone done this yet and is there anyone near sacramento that i can i be referred to ? please any help would be great
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby weapon5 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:07 pm

255 fp
a standalone

use this to find the right injector
http://injector-rehab.com/shop/e85_injector_size.html

also call your local tuner or who you are going to get tune by for more information. that'll be the best route. :D
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby celicat93 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:01 pm

E85 corrodes parts made for gasoline engines. E85 engines are reinforced with stainless steel fuel lines, etc. I wouldn't recommend it, E85 gets worse gas mileage anyway, it doesn't burn any cleaner and it requires more energy to produce than is yielded (not to mention is takes 12 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol, and we're at the dawn of a global fresh water crisis). The only reason it's economically feasible is because of subsidies. So, why do you want to use E85? :P
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby ZeroDrift » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:04 pm

celicat93 wrote:E85 corrodes parts made for gasoline engines. E85 engines are reinforced with stainless steel fuel lines, etc. I wouldn't recommend it, E85 gets worse gas mileage anyway, it doesn't burn any cleaner and it requires more energy to produce than is yielded (not to mention is takes 12 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol, and we're at the dawn of a global fresh water crisis). The only reason it's economically feasible is because of subsidies. So, why do you want to use E85? :P



E85 will corrode raw aluminum, but for the most part, rubbers and steels will be unaffected. It should have no effect on anodized aluminum fittings, rails or other anodized components. Even so it takes a long duration for the corrosion to take place, so just don't park the car with e-85 in the fuel system for long periods if you are super paranoid about it.
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby c 45 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:16 am

hmmm do i reakky want to do it i guess thats a better question i hear that with the right tune and what not i can see a big difference in horse power
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby toayoztan » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:36 am

c 45 wrote:hmmm do i reakky want to do it i guess thats a better question i hear that with the right tune and what not i can see a big difference in horse power


One reason because it can resist detonation at higher temps, allowing to push more boost when compared to pump (but not quite as good as race fuel - 105 octane vs 114...or so in terms of octane rating). Again, due to lower efficiency in power output, it requires a bit more fuel, and bigger injectors, with a different set of knowledge for tuning (not your typical AFR goals).

Also, there's factors like oxygenation, density, heat, etc. between the two for differences. There's a bunch of articles out there to read on this. If you plan to daily, I'd suggest e85 if you have it available w/o being such a hassle. Just remember if you travel for shows/runs/competitions, you know where the e85 stops are...

That being said, if you plan to just run e85 and be done with it, get it setup right. Otherwise, many still do the "ol" pump and race fuel when feeling excited.

I'm still debating which fuel setup to run. I have 1000 ID injectors right now on hand, for race fuel setup. But I'm thinking maybe e85, which will require bigger injectors, ensuring i have proper seals/line setup, etc - more money up front and having to sell what I have now.

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Re: e85 tune?

Postby scmil95eg » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:56 pm

weapon5 wrote:use this to find the right injector
http://injector-rehab.com/shop/e85_injector_size.html


Their formula recommends increasing your fuel delivery by 47% which isn't necessary. They made a simple math error:

They state:
"The 1.47 number represents the difference between the stoiciometric fuel ratio of gasoline and E85. Gasoline is 14.7 and E85 is 10.0"

And they are correct on the AFR's, gas is 14.7, E85 is 10, the difference in value is 4.7 AFR points.
Percentage-wise, 10.0:1 is 32% richer than 14.7:1.

The next instruction is where they go "wrong":
"Let's say that in the Injector size selection guide size calculator, you came up with a size of 42lb injector needed to reach your HP goals. Simply take the number 42 and multiply this by 1.47"

Why increase your fuel delivery by 47% when the required difference in AFR is only 32%?

While there's nothing wrong with overkill for safety, their formula just isn't accurate.
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby monkey8oi » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:00 pm

what is your main goal here? is it just to remove the fuel cut so that your car doesn't hit fuel cut and bog out? or are you looking to get to a higher horse power goal? if it's just to keep your car from hitting fuel cut, just get an FCD. but if you're looking to go e85 to get more power, then you'll need to upgrade to larger injectors, 255 pump, and a standalone ecu and get it tuned for e85.. with the standalone ecu, you can tune for two maps. one for pump gas and one for e85.. before you do so, understand that there are far less e85 gas stations here than there are regular gas stations.. and it is not recommended that you mix the two.. you'd have to run it till you're empty of 91oct, switch the map to the e85 map, then fill up n go..

if you're looking for a tuner, you can always fly out Kris O. from KO racing to tune like i did.. he's also a dealer for the hydra nemesis.. here's a rough break down of the costs involved in going e85..

hydra nemesis $1200
SARD 800 injectors $400
walbro 255 pump $100
tune (so far) $800

total = $2500 so far... and my tune isn't even done yet and i haven't even gotten to e85.. that's just to get the standalone ecu tuned for 91 oct.. just a heads up..
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e85 tune?

Postby Hic » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:32 am

Or u can use
Vipec pnp with ethanol
Sensor and just drive with one map and vipec will adjust the tune to the ethanol
Content on the fly.
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby l0ch0w » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:31 pm

^the key with the vipec is flex fuel support...

I thought it interpolated between two maps though?

this means you can essentially fill up with either pump gas or ethanol and it wont matter...
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby aus jd 2703 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:49 pm

FYI u can run flex fuel with just two maps but it means you have to tune safe for everything in between there for ur never making the power u should from ethanol. U really need more like 5 maps so the interpolation isn't so coarse
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby l0ch0w » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:18 pm

aus jd 2703 wrote:FYI u can run flex fuel with just two maps but it means you have to tune safe for everything in between there for ur never making the power u should from ethanol. U really need more like 5 maps so the interpolation isn't so coarse


Or you have a J&S knock sensor, and you run in open loop...
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby aus jd 2703 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:53 pm

Ok open loop and knock sensor saves u from detonation what about running lean and damaging that way?
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Re: e85 tune?

Postby l0ch0w » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:16 pm

aus jd 2703 wrote:Ok open loop and knock sensor saves u from detonation what about running lean and damaging that way?


Because knock is the damage that results from running lean... and under open loop the ECU adjusts fuel to eliminate knock, and keep AFRs within a safe operating range.

The J&S retards ignition timing per cylinder to prevent damage that might occur from a lean condition.
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