Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

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Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:33 pm

So reading many different things on the forum
About running what you already have on a stock car
Seems to be the st185 doesn't really make good power unless
Heavily modified here's a few observations
Those of you in similar situation please confirm ...

A lot of mods seem unnecessary unless you are looking for
360bhp +

I've read : on a standard st185
The only mods worth your money is

1. Electronic Boost controller with meter reading
2. Fuel cut defender
3. Down/dump pipe
4. Full exhaust over 2.5" - 3" no bigger
5. Intercooler front mount ..

And that you will see the full potential of the
Turbo ct26 at 16 - 17psi and that It doesnt need an air fuel piggy back
System to control fueling as the ecu does a good job
Once the FCD is fitted ? Can anyone confirm this
And what power there car made in bhp ? And whp ?
If there running this setup

Next I read that adding the ct20b to the car means more
Power and still requires no fueling mods as above pushing 16-17psi

Also the intercooler .. Am I correct in saying its water cooled ?
And that changing it to front mount using the standard or ct20b
You won't see much of a gain ?

So what about ?

A good 1bar boost actuator ?
A highlift cam shaft ( intake cam or exhaust cam ? Which is it )
An apexi neo or similar fuel computer ?
An induction kit ?
A fuel pressure regulator

Apparently those mods mentioned above are only needed should you be
Changing from either ct20b or ct26 to a bigger turbo !!?
Does that sound right


Is fuel management needed at all on these with the 2turbos mentioned
Pushing 16-17 psi ?
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:12 pm

I find it hard that nobody has experienced this to share there
Views on this ?
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby polm » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:12 pm

Here's some good reading for you:
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/primers.htm
http://www.koracing.net/viewarticle.php?article=10

My advice:
The stock head gasket is rubbish. It's made out of graphite and doesn't handle an increase in boost very well. A cheap yet very important mod would be to get a metal head gasket, like the one from cometic or ATS. While you're at it throw in arp studs. You don't need cams at this power level. Stock cams are somewhat good, hell James (yota3.0) made 600whp on the stock 3rd gen cams. Instead of buying cams, buy cam gears and retard exhaust timing by 6.2 degrees, you'll see an increase in throttle response and some even claim gaining 15whp and 15lbs of torque. If your timing belt is due, it's a good time to replace it while you install the cam gears. As for the rest, the mods you listed seem fine. I would strongly advise getting a wideband. When you're at WOT, your air fuel ratios should always stay below 11.5, the stock pistons really don't like more than that. If you want an adjustable wastegate actuator, don't waste your money on the kinugawa model, the fitment is terrible and the quality is borderline decent, trust me, I bought one. Apexi neo's and SAFC or any other piggyback systems don't work very well with our cars. By experience I can tell you that you will reach the stock fuel system's safe limits at around 16-17psi with a ct20b, that puts you at about 11.3-11.4 AFR at WOT. Oh and also, for the downpipe, stay away from those ebay ones. The catback exhaust is fine and does the job very well, but the downpipe isn't well designed and the wastegate cannot fully open when fitted with a ct20b. I was experiencing heavy overboosting reaching as much as 20psi on the stock actuator even without a boost controller installed.

What I would do if I were you:
CT20b
Downpipe: http://www.atsracing.net/Parts/Details/EX-ATS-DP-3
Exhaust: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Catback-Exh ... 7d&vxp=mtr
FCD: http://www.rojgonz.com/mr2/zener.htm
EBC: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-PRICE-2013-H ... 3a&vxp=mtr
Front mount: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-CELICA ... 0600090001
Cometic top end kit: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1033.html
ARP studs: Contact klue he's the forum vendor and has those for cheap.
Cam gears: http://www.atsracing.net/Parts/Details/E-ATSCAMGEARS
Wideband: Innovate and aem make good and affordable products.

Always remember that you should never mod a car that has problems. Take care of any issues before you increase power. Do the appropriate maintenance first, as per koracing's guide listed above. Change spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coolant, transmission fluid, diff fluid, fuel filter... You want to start with a solid base, it's important. You'll be happy you did so in the long run. Make sure you keep the manifold heat shield or install a turbo blanket and exhaust wrap on the manifold; you want the intake temps to be as low as possible. Clean your air filter thoroughly or install a new one. It's all basic stuff but it's very important. If your clutch is getting old, you'll start to notice some slipping at this power level. I would advise changing the clutch for something stronger. Exedy stage 1, Centerforce dualfriction, clutchmasters FX200 are all good choices. A gen 3 clutch can also do the trick.

At this point you'll be at the limits of what the stock powerplant can make in terms of power. You'll have a fast car (you can do low 13s / high 12s with this setup) but going any further would be pushing it. If you want more you'll need a standalone ecu, an upgrade in the fuel system and probably forged pistons and rods as well as an engine overhaul. This step is way more expensive.

Oh and modding isn't all about power...If you want a better and more fun car to drive, than you should also swap the brake pads and rotors for some high performance ones and get a nice suspension setup like some coilovers and sway bars up front and back. Get some wider wheels and tires. For me and many others, a better driving experience also means better grip and handling.

Anyway, hope this helps other people too.
Good luck with your build and happy holidays!
Pierre
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:04 am

Excellent !!! And thank you very much for your time in doing the write up with links
I actually read both articles you mentioned from ko and mr on the tunning aspects

I have a good bit of stuff to work on there as you listed
I will go through with them .. I want the car to feel turbo charged !
And stock these cars feel like some sort of gti.

I have:

D2 coilovers
St205 rotors and calipers on the front
Full Blitz nurspec R exhaust
So those bits are out of the way thank god $$$

But hey thanks again and Merry Christmas
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby quieter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:07 pm

the exhaust ebay link is 2.5'' piping, just saying. nice detailed info polm!!

berk makes a great downpipes as well with a flange, so no more cracking DPs! and the pricing is great

http://www.berktechnology.com/store/sto ... downpipes/
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:13 pm

Thanks for another option :)

What's the wide band 02 all about I saw polm mentioned this in his post
Do I just buy a wide band 02 sensor to replace the old one or can some elaborate

If it needs setting up or just plug and play ?

I take it the ceramic coated down pips are the best ?

And flexi sections would that not cause improper flow ?
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby quieter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:07 pm

you would need an aftermarket downpipe to use the wideband as most of them got a bung hole. wideband wont work on stock downpipe (with cat).
your going to need to get a pillar to install the gauge

dont get a cheap wideband, might as well pay 30-40$ more and get AEM

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AEM-30-4100-DIGI ... a6&vxp=mtr

ceramic coated is better and i dont know if the flange causes improper flow or not
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby polm » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:46 pm

quieter wrote:the exhaust ebay link is 2.5'' piping, just saying. nice detailed info polm!!

berk makes a great downpipes as well with a flange, so no more cracking DPs! and the pricing is great

http://www.berktechnology.com/store/sto ... downpipes/

Don't know where you saw 2.5" but I have that exhaust and it's a 3". It has dual 2.5" tips, maybe that's what got you confused.

Matty's already got a blitz though so he should stick with that!

Matty-st185 wrote:Thanks for another option :)

What's the wide band 02 all about I saw polm mentioned this in his post
Do I just buy a wide band 02 sensor to replace the old one or can some elaborate

If it needs setting up or just plug and play ?

I take it the ceramic coated down pips are the best ?

And flexi sections would that not cause improper flow ?

The wideband o2 is an addon, it doesn't replace your stock o2 sensor. It comes with a gauge and gives you the air fuel ratio of the mixture that's being burnt. It's plug and play, no setting up, you just plug it in the wideband o2 bung that comes on most aftermarket downpipes. Ceramic coating is better, but if you use exhaust wrap on an uncoated downpipe you will get something similar. Do not wrap a ceramic coated downpipe or it will crack. Having a flex section on a downpipe is a big + as it allows for more engine movement. The turbulence it causes in the exhaust is so small its really nothing to worry about.
Cheers!
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:53 pm

About to buy this berktechnology down pipe in ceramic
Before I do it's listed as an mr2 rev2 part
Will this defo fit my gt4 rev2 ? Direct bolt on !?
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby polm » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:21 pm

Matty-st185 wrote:About to buy this berktechnology down pipe in ceramic
Before I do it's listed as an mr2 rev2 part
Will this defo fit my gt4 rev2 ? Direct bolt on !?

Yes
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby Matty-st185 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:15 pm

Thank you gentlemen :) excellent knowledge between you all
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby underscore » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:01 am

One thing that I think gets overlooked is that you may want to get your injectors cleaned and flowmatched at some point to avoid risking leaning out a cylinder.
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Re: Maximum ct26 or ct20b bhp potential

Postby klue » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:12 am

underscore wrote:One thing that I think gets overlooked is that you may want to get your injectors cleaned and flowmatched at some point to avoid risking leaning out a cylinder.
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