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megasquirt tuning issues w/composite log page 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:41 am
by outinnowhere3193
Ok guys I've had a time with this car/engine. I got the car without a engine and a 1991 JDM engine. The car is a 88. Anyways I stuck with the 88 wiring cause I didn't have a 91 cpu. So I wired everything and didn't have a AFM so I got one from a junk yard for a NA car.

The ran ran very rich at idle and wouldn't crank over 3000 rpm...flooding it out. I wrote to you guys and some people suggested I can't adjust a NA AFM to work so I got a AFM from another alltrac user. I ended up with the exact same issue.

Only thing fuel wise that I know of is I installed a walbro 255. At the time I assumed the engine had stock injectors.

So after two failed attempts I said screw it I bought me a DIYPNP and stuck everything together. So I now have my diypnp with a Wideband and purchased the tuner studio software for autotune.

Anyways so I pulled a base tune from MSPNP.com and theres a 3sgte MR2 base map. After inserting that the car started right up and once again rich so I selected the whole map and scaled it down till my idle was decent. Once again tried reving and again spudders out and my wideband quickly goes to 9.0.

So the last 3 days I've been slowly leaning this out and trying to not make to big of steps but I've gotten to this point where it seems it just doesn't like 4500 rpm.

Now if I rev it and get it just right I can get up into the 5000 to 7000 range but I just dont like free reving that high but I've been there a little and it's mixture from what I can tell isn't bad...12.5 or so.

Only thing I can come up with is either fuel, or ignition. For those who have wired one up. I don't know if it matters or not but I'm using G2 Instead of G1 for my VR2 input

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:17 am
by MWP
Both of those tables are a long way from ideal, and kinda show you haven't read much on how to use a MS.
You need to go do some studying otherwise you'll probably never end up with a decent tune and possibly do some damage.

Go read the MS manual, then start again with a new base tune (trash those tables above, they are pretty much useless).

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:37 am
by outinnowhere3193
well this map is off of the Base map on MSPNP.com for MS2.... I did learn while doing some research that for map calibration MPX4250 is what a normal DIYPNP comes with and mine was set at MPXH6400

I had noticed that my 0hg's was at about 140 kpa and was lost with that. I now have it set correctly and just retried using the Mr2 map and my wideband showed 9's and wouldn't rev practically at all. So I went to my map and scaled it up. Now I'm back to basically where I was.

The wideband is a APSX D2....It's about 2 weeks old and yes I calibrated it. lol

If you have some maps you would like to share I'd be happy to plug them in and try them.

Currently my map does have some lean and rich spots but for the most part anything below 4 grand runs and drives good. I haven't even attempted boost really....maybe 2-3 psi but that usually is somewhere around 9.3 and before boost gets higher if gets to rich to go any higher.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:44 am
by outinnowhere3193
MWP wrote:Both of those tables are a long way from ideal, and kinda show you haven't read much on how to use a MS.
You need to go do some studying otherwise you'll probably never end up with a decent tune and possibly do some damage.

Go read the MS manual, then start again with a new base tune (trash those tables above, they are pretty much useless).



The ignition map is the map that MS provides. So you saying to trash it...where do I begin? As far as Fuel goes I'm 90% sure I don't have stock injectors so my numbers are going to be lower and no where near a stock tune.

As far as setup if I have a base map...technically it should be verify it works. install your tune, calibrate sensors and then start and adjust timing. All the setting are suppose to be there for you...that's the purpose of a base tune as well as it should run rich.

my tune I currently have has started from a very rich condition and is slowly leaning down. But it did start off as the stock MR2 base map and it has been altered by the tuner studio software. autotune

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:29 am
by anothergt4
Any idea what color the plastic on your injectors are? Is the injector resistors still being used?

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:42 am
by MWP
Your VE table is saying your engine is very inefficient.
An incorrect ReqFuel is the reason for that... are you sure its correct?

Your VE table is also setup isnt the best.
Are you really boosting to 300kpa (~45psi)?
I gather its a street driven car? You should have more resolution under 100kpa, and less above to help with driveability.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:56 am
by outinnowhere3193
As I posted earlier the ms file I had was using the wrong map sensor so 0 hg was equal to about 140 so 15 pounds so like 280.
so I had to remap yesterday cause I kept running out of map. Now it's set correctly and I can lower it back down.

I'll experiment with the mr2 file and change the regfuel till its close and then see what it does.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:29 pm
by outinnowhere3193
ok I think I found all the issues with the file. For starters the Mr2 version is different then the firmware I have on a new system. I found that not only was the map sensor set for the wrong sensor but its info was wrong as well. After correcting it the car wouldn't even run.

So I then plugged the MR2 fuel setting back and and redone my map size and it started but was running very rich so I changed the injector size to 540 and that seems to be more like it.

But I still have issues at 4500. If I try a high gear I can get to about 4200 and my fuel ratio from what I see never leans out or gets to rich it just wont go there like it's timing. But I've went as far as removing 10 degrees and still wouldn't rev there.

Now free reving it still doesn't like to but at about 70-80 kpa it will go past and on up to 5+ to redline. and if I try slowly lowering the revs it's perfectly fine till about 4800 and then sputters again.

I think you will like this new map better. As far as driving partial to wot is smooth acceleration and little bounce on the afm. But never the less good all the way to 4k that were I let off and shift.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:34 pm
by MWP
That looks better.

As for going above 4500, use the composite logger to make sure you dont have crank/cam position sensor issues at higher RPMs.
Ignition timing shouldn't stop you going over 4500. Sensor issues or very bad fuel will (fuel looks ok though).

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:02 pm
by mcesal
You're using diypnp? So stock distributer? Have you tried adjustin the potentiometers sounds like you're having noise or sync loss, you should post a tooth log file up of you revving to 4500-5000, I had the same issues with my st165, I'm running an ms2e3.57, removed the distributor and I'm running ls1 coilpacks in wasted spark. My trigger wheel setup would lose sync at about 4500 rpm as well, it basically felt like a hard Rev limiter, if you're running the stock ignition map from the pnp tune I wouldn't expect that to be your problem, I've successfully got to 7500 rpm with full boost on that same map, with slislight changes to my ve tables and sensor settings. It also helps to tune at the beginning with all of the ego correction off.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:41 pm
by outinnowhere3193
Yes I currently have everything off including the acceleration enrichment. When it misses enrichment makes it hard to see if u was rich or lean.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:05 pm
by outinnowhere3193
from what I can tell you guys are right it's noise.

Looking at the tooth log it's hard to tell which page was the 4500 rpm cause this time it actually rev'd threw it every time with just a couple hickups so I had to try and get it to stay there. But on the composite log it definably shows noise...loss sync on the cam signal.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:11 pm
by mcesal
I was pretty sure it was noise or sync loss. I had a conversation with diy autotune a while back about their pnp unit since they used to not be able to hand 24-1 trigger wheel configurations, they said they added in a potentiometer to adjust cam signal strength and that was it. You can try adjusting it to remove some noise, from what I read in a previous article, there's 3 vr sensors inside the distributor all utilizing the same ground wire which attributes to alot of noise, maybe you can do something to remedy that.

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=3 ... 237?page=1

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Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:05 am
by outinnowhere3193
So how does one go about shielding the wires? Are we shielding them from each other or just from everything else?

@ my work I do large scale a and everything runs off mv. So or wires have 6 conductors plus ground covered with braided wire. That then gets to rubber coats and then again is braided on the outside. So would be a great wire for my cam/crank of I can run them all inside the same line.

Re: megasquirt tuning issues

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:32 am
by anothergt4
Ya you can just run like a three wire or two wire in your case shielded Belden wire or omnicable whatever the brand is, I may actually have some if you need then just run it away from everything else, or about 10-12 inches up from the ecu plugs should be the shield for your existing cable, you could try taking off the shirty crimp and soldering the shield, that may do it.