***** ST185 Front Wide Fenders *****

R

roo

New member
What: Complete fiberglass replacement front wide fenders for the ST185. Should be around 30-40mm on each side. (I am still taking measurements but the will basically be made to be exactly as wide as the rear fenders)

Purpose: We all know that our rear fenders are wider as if our cars were rear wheel drive....and since we are AWD, for the best performance, reliability and to preserve our center diffs, we MUST run the same diameter and width on all 4 wheels on our cars. These fenders will allow us to shed some weight off the front ends of the car while allowing 4 identical wheels to be used and fill that ugly fender gap we have in the rear of our vehicles.

Related Information: The rear wheels on our cars can be maxed to 11 inch wide wheels!! Performance-wise, I wouldn't run anything wider than 10 inches. Even the new EVO'S struggle to run even a 9.5inch wide wheel all around on their cars. Think about how much better your car would handle and grip with 10 inch wide wheels. You can also use 9,8, or 7 inch wide wheels with lower offsets. (these give you that deep dish lip that everyone loves) I'll start up a wheel thread with specs and options as well as post updates here...


I've been talking to 3 different companies to get these made, all the companies have expressed that they require a minimum of about 20 sets to be produced. Please post your interest in this thread and whether you'de "definatly purchase" "plan to purchase" or are just "interested."

I want to give this thread about 2 weeks to gather feedback and then see what i can do negotiating with the companies on price. I will then post the prices and information here and we can decide as a group which company to use.

I've also considered having an intake duct incorperated into the driver-side fender that could be used to bring in cold ait to the intake. Something tasteful, not ricey. I'd love if I could get feedback on what you guys think of that idea as well


Feedback
_____________________________________________

Definatly Purchase:
[02]

Plan to purchase:
[01]

Interested:
[04]
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
I concidered this about a year ago. The rear fenders only appear to be wider. It is the rear axel that is shorter. The front fenders are as far out as the rear. The garage cruise car uses 17x9.5" wide wheels front and rear and Bob uses 16x9 all the way around. Bob also uses 245 wide race tires, which are wider then 245 street tires. There may not be a need for such an item for the purpose of wider wheels. Roll then fenders and there ya go, wide wheels and tires with no rub. I doubt most people would splurge on 9" wide or wider wheels for a street car. I myself am going with the 9" wide wheels for my track gt4.
 
R

RedCelicaTRD

Moderator
I'm only interested. I'd have to see what it would look like before I make a final decision. A nice deep dish is what I'm after and being able to fit something as wide as a 275 tire all the way around would kick ass.
 
R

roo

New member
CMS-GT4":1ojdkjss said:
I concidered this about a year ago. The rear fenders only appear to be wider. It is the rear axel that is shorter. The front fenders are as far out as the rear. The garage cruise car uses 17x9.5" wide wheels front and rear and Bob uses 16x9 all the way around. Bob also uses 245 wide race tires, which are wider then 245 street tires. There may not be a need for such an item for the purpose of wider wheels. Roll then fenders and there ya go, wide wheels and tires with no rub. I doubt most people would splurge on 9" wide or wider wheels for a street car. I myself am going with the 9" wide wheels for my track gt4.
Click to expand...

So you're telling me that the wheelbase in the front is wider than the rear? If that were the case, the car would oversteer in stock form....which we know is not the case. :shrug:

The Garage cruise car has overfenders on the front...

1021013056.jpg


http://www.cruise-power.co.jp
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
would these directly replace the fenders of a 90 gt as well, no other modifications necessary?...i'm assuming then that i'd be stuck with not-as-wide rear fenders then huh? maybe i can replace my rear fenders with gts fenders...would that work? then would my front and rear bumpers conform wierd? aiyah.....too tired, must sleep
 
R

roo

New member
Anonymous":27j6kzi4 said:
would these directly replace the fenders of a 90 gt as well, no other modifications necessary?...i'm assuming then that i'd be stuck with not-as-wide rear fenders then huh? maybe i can replace my rear fenders with gts fenders...would that work? then would my front and rear bumpers conform wierd? aiyah.....too tired, must sleep
Click to expand...

direct replacements for your front fenders. for a front wheel drive car, I think it would actually look better with wider fenders up front...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
roo I bought wind delectors off you almost 11 months ago and still haven't recieved them, and now your ingoring my emails?

what's going on you said you were looking for the reciet that was 3 months ago, have you jsut run off with my money? thanks alot
 
W

wyldie

New member
sorry above post was by me wyldie... I can't eraze it as it was a guest, but please don't let my transaction with Roo affect you purshases with him, we have just had a miss understanding.
 
T

turbo4wd

Moderator
Put me down as plan to purchase.. As long as they're a good fit, I'm game.. Since theyre fiberglass, they shouldnt cost much either..
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
roo":21vs9xoi said:
CMS-GT4":21vs9xoi said:
I concidered this about a year ago. The rear fenders only appear to be wider. It is the rear axel that is shorter. The front fenders are as far out as the rear. The garage cruise car uses 17x9.5" wide wheels front and rear and Bob uses 16x9 all the way around. Bob also uses 245 wide race tires, which are wider then 245 street tires. There may not be a need for such an item for the purpose of wider wheels. Roll then fenders and there ya go, wide wheels and tires with no rub. I doubt most people would splurge on 9" wide or wider wheels for a street car. I myself am going with the 9" wide wheels for my track gt4.
Click to expand...

So you're telling me that the wheelbase in the front is wider than the rear? If that were the case, the car would oversteer in stock form....which we know is not the case. :shrug:

The Garage cruise car has overfenders on the front...

1021013056.jpg


http://www.cruise-power.co.jp
Click to expand...

Yes that is what I am telling you. Go measure it for yourself. We already had a thread on this on the old forum, that I started myself. We have also discussed that the rear being tucked in the fenders is a probabal cause for the understeer, and that widing the rear track will help nuetral out the handling and reduce the understeer. On the same note making the rear wheel go out too far past the stock one will also cause and understeer issue. Not all cars follow the same rules with adjusting the track, the 185 being one of them.
And I am talking about the other garage cruise celica (red) anyway. I do not know the specs of the one you posted.
 
R

roo

New member
Having a wider track up front would not cause understeer. Alot of beggining drifters use a wider setup in the front because it causes oversteer and makes for more easily controlled drifts.

Have you measured the wheels bases in the front and the rear? I'm going to attempt it but if you have some info already, please post it.
 
A

AWDios

New member
You can put me down as mildly interested.

1. I want to see what they look like.
2. I want to know for sure this would be a benefit to me.
3. I want to hear something other than negative feedback from people who have done business with you.

This isn't meant as an insult or attack, but one can't help but notice that every business related thread you start, people pop in and ask where the items they ordered are and mention they've already paid and are waiting.

I've only heard anything good from Coldiron when he bought the Cusco stuff.

Honestly from my stand point, I'm interested in a lot of the things you have to offer, but I'm afraid to purchase from you.
 
S

SBCelicaGT

New member
Mildly Interested

I'd like to fit 8" wide wheels(245/45/16 tires) on my GT and was considering flared fenders. If this goes into production it must look OEM for me to be interested. No silly scoops, cuts, vents, odd angles, etc. I'll need to see a prototype before I put my deposit down.
 
R

roo

New member
Just as a note, i am NOT selling these. Whichever company produces them will handle all the transactions, manufacturing shipping, etc. I'm not doing this for profit, I'm just organizing this thing to see that they are actually produced.
 
B

b00staholic

New member
roo --

These companies you're talking to are in the United States, right? Not Japan?

I think a lot of people would be less interested if they had to pay for freight from Japan on these things and not be able to directly communicate with the company in an appreciable manner.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
2 of them are in the U.S. and 1 is in Japan. (VARIS)

As I posted at the top, I'll get estimates and all the info and probably post a poll in here to decide who to use. Freight from Japan on these shouldn't be a factor money-wise because the company I work for brings over 40-ft containers from Japan every 3-4 weeks.

Anyhow, I am pretty sure VARIS will be the most expensive either way. It's OEM quality (they make OEM parts for Toyota all the time) and once I get all the pricing, you guys can decide if it's worth it.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
If you can produce a nice stock looking kit for a reasonable price, I may be interested. But I would also be interested in rear flares, since I am still standing by my statement of the track being shorter in the rear. I would like the flares to look just like the stock flares, but protrude more. I think it could be done, and not effect the bumper lineup and such. I would concider going to larger wheels for racing if I can get front and rear flares. I would love to see front flares simular to those on the messiah kit. :evil:
 
R

roo

New member
Josh,

I managed a measuring tape to the front and rear tracks and to my amazement, you're definately right about the rear having a shorter wheelbase. (by about an inch and a half)

I can only assume this was done to help the car handle. It helps the car oversteer. My guess is that the front weight and stiffness of our cars are the main factors in the car understeering in stock form. I've tuned my suspension to be as stiff as possible to the rear and left the front of my car stock with the exception of the side-tower braces and it's much more neutral than in stock form.

ANYHOW...

This raises two questions....

1.) Should we even try to use 4 identical wheels and keep the shorter wheelbase in the rear or should we use wheels with a 25-35mm smaller offset in the rear. (this does explain the ability to run a 17x10 +5 in the rear a bit more)

2.) Should I even bother trying to have these fenders made if you are correct about the fenders alread being equal??
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
As far as the logic of toyota making the rear short, who knows. I read one article online claiming that toyota made the 185 have more understeer then the 165. One theroy is that for people with less driving skills. Understeer is easier corrected then oversteer.

Next read my post here.
This is what I tested using 2 different wheel spacers.
http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=924&start=15

Bringing out the rear wheels to the same as the front with a 25mm spacer will induce oversteer.
The characteristics I experienced was that the car turned in sharper, and coming out of the turn the rear would throtle out and keep the car from going into oversteer.

I thought the front wheels looked to far tucked in so I bought an 8mm spacer. Installed it on the front. (Needed to be more like .5" for looks)
SO I took the car for a test drive. The wider track in the front made the car grip alot better. It took a bit more push to make the front plow. BUT, it was not oversteer. The rear never came around. It just made the car go where you pointed it. It was less pleasing to drive, even though it handled faster. It seemed to jsut drag teh rear around.

So I took it home, and put the 8mm spacers on the rear with the 25mm spacers, thinking that it would increase oversteer. It did not. It actually increased understeer. And I lost the limits that were obtained with the spacer in the front.

So it would seem to me, that the wheels need to be close to equal in track width. Then the car releys on the suspension setup to determine the over/understeer.

Might explain why the TTE car, and other Scca rally gt4's have the same track width. Also the wider the track the better the grip. That is one reason the wheels shouldgo close to the outside of the fenders. That and it looks good too.
Click to expand...

Some cars react differently to certain suspension tuning. Most handling books and artlices are gearded torwards rwd cars. It is proven that one thing that works on one car may do the opposite on another.
I think the gt4 needs a nuetral track and reley on the suspension and rear lsd for tuning the handling. In my experience with my car this seems to work. Though with everyone having different parts and setups it may prove different.

It may be worth making the fenders still. I leanred that the handling limits of bringing the front out do increase handling speed, but it does not indue the same ovesteer I have expereneced eith a nuetral track.

The stock fenders are fairly light as well, so FG will not be a huge weight inmprovement.
I would suggest just having them flared slightly for wheel fitment. I think my next season I am keeping the 7" wide wheels till I can get a sponsor to help pay for the goodies that you offer. Then I will go 9" wide, unless I do the fender flaring.

On the note of a wider front.
SBcelicagt, you can just use wider alltrac/gts fenders in the front.
 
S

SBCelicaGT

New member
Coldiron, yes, I realized that and already have planned to pick up a set from TAP next time I am up in the bay area. I didn't think 245's would fit on the GT-S/Alltrac without modification.
 
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