Against all good judgement, I will continue this rediculous thread, purely for clarification.
1) If we go back to talking about handling, by out of the box 'tuned' I mean off of the factory floor capabilities. This is almost purely a matter of tires, roll stiffness, and shocks (and weight). SRT-4's come from the factory with more roll stiffness, better tires, and better shocks (and weigh less). Period. You don't need to put a rear sway bar on an SRT-4 to make it work, or much else for that matter. I don't mean alltrac's are not tuneable, if anything they are more tuneable than any neon.
2) I don't own a neon, and never will. I own more than one alltrac and have invested over $40k into the AMD ST165 because I believe it is (or can be) one of the most formidable cars on the road. I wouldn't be on this forum if I wasn't devoted to the mark. I am a CAR freak however, and don't excercise blind ignorance when evaluating performance.
3) Take a brand new completely stock alltrac up against a ACR SRT-4 and the alltrac will not outperform it. That is my point. Take that same alltrac against an STI or an EVO and its' not even close. That is my point. Take that alltrac, do turbo back exhaust, raise the boost, change the tires, change the bushings, add a rear sway bar, change the shocks and change the springs and it is an ENTIRELY different story.
Which is how I started this whole thing in the first place. If I had a ten second neon maybe I would give a flying fuck about it... :shrug: