The ST185 wheel size thread (offsets, widths, etc)

Suspension and other discussion

The ST185 wheel size thread (offsets, widths, etc)

Postby roo » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:53 am

Rather than scatter the information in various threads, this thread's purpose is to educate all ST185 owners as to what size wheels are possible on their vehicles.


STOCK WHEEL SIZE


15x6.5 +39 offset

This means the stock wheels extend 47.25mm out past the hub and 120.25mm inside the fender from the hub.

TEST DATA

What we know fits on the front:

17x8.5 +35 (no rubbing at all)

17x9 +30


What we know fits on the rear:

17x9 +30 (rear fenders rolled)

17x10 +5 (sticks out slightly but has 12.5mm of clearance on the inside)


Conclusions thus far:

The max we've seen so far on the front is 142.5 mm on the inside and 82.5mm on the outside.

This means a 9 inch wide wheel on the front is very possible with something near a 30mm offset.



The max we've seen on the rear so far is 130mm on the inside and 120mm on the outside.

This means a 10 inch wide wheel should fit with an ideal offset of +10 or +12. A 9 inch wide wheel with a near 30mm offset, as stated above will also do nicely and should fill the fender well.


MORE COMPLICATIONS

If you're like me, for the circuit you prefer to stretch the tire and use as wide of wheels as possible. Keeping in mind the AWD, you most likely want to have all 4 wheels identical in at least width. If you crave deep dish like me, you know that the lower the offset, the deeper the lip you can obtain. How far is too far? Camber also affects things here, even only a few degrees of neg. camber can save a wheel or make it rub. Let's explore...




Image
This is claimed to be 17x9 +30 all around. It looks good but could be pushed out wider slightly more. SLIGHTLY


Image
Image
This is claimed to be 16x9...my guess is the offset is somewhere between 0 and +10. I might bring in by 5-10mm but it's close to what I consider to be perfect. (though the wheel design itself is fugly hehe)


Image
Image
In my opinion, these wheels are perfect. They are totally flush. The fenders are rolled and it does not rub at all.

WHEELS THAT FIT THE TICKET
So far, hands down goes to the Speed Star Racing (SSR) Professors for being extremely versitle and flexible in every aspect. They are 5x100 friendly and can be had in virtually any width, size, and offset. (They're also damn sexy and reasonable in price) They can be ordered in custom colors for about $30 more per wheel.

ImageImage Image Image

The Volk GT-C is another inexpensive wheel that works. Unfortunately, we are limited to 8 inches in width, however, they do have a low (16mm) offset available which would give you about 2.5 inches of lip and extend out to the fenders quite nicely. They're also quite inexpensive and are available in custom colors for about $30 per wheel.

Image

Let the discussion begin![/img]
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Last edited by roo on Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby roo » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:31 am

another note, the Garage Cruise ST185 runs 17x9.5 all around but I can't figure out the offset because they have an aftermarket brake setup which often times changes the hub location.....meaning what offset works on their car may not work on a car with stock brake setup...I shall investigte further...
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:23 pm

Here is the garage cruise site.
http://www.cruise-power.co.jp/index.html
Maybe youcan contact them about the o/s?

EDIT: Info added for wheel specs.

Read this thread.
viewtopic.php?p=276245#276245

st185 wide body wheel faq.
Tune at your own risk.

Update: http://www.tirerack.com now has a st185 on their site when viewing wheels. This is a good reference and source for wheels for the st185.

• Oem st185 alltrac "flower pedal" rim size.
15x6.5 +39 offset or ET
The bolt pattern is 5x100.
The lug thread pitch is 1.5 for aftermarket lug nuts.
Info on converting the bolt pattern to inches for some american wheels.
viewtopic.php?t=28361&highlight=
(Various sized OZ wheels may be found on gtfour models in other countries.)



• The term ET represents offset.
Offset is a very important factor in choosing a wheel size. It will help you determine the clearance between the wheel and the suspension and if the wheel will stick out too far from the fender.
These are good tools for calculating offset of a wheel.
http://marksink.com/tire_wheel_offset/offset.html
http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp
http://www.wheelsmaster.com/rt_specs.jsp
http://www.rims-n-tires.com/rt_specs.jsp

Example and further reading:
Meurz wrote:+45 means a positive offset of 45mm, which would have a smaller lip and the outer edge of the lip sits further inwards compared to a +20 wheel for instance.

For our cars 17x8 +30 would be very nice with a rear 25 mm spacer (effectively changing the offset or ET (short for the German word 'Einpresstiefe' which means 'insertion depth') to +5)

Higher offset = less lip, wheel sits deeper in the arch (mounting surface closer to outside of the wheel)
Lower offset = more lip, wheel sits less deep in the arch (mounting surface closer to inside of the wheel)

Image


•Track width and spacers.
The rear track of the gtfours is shorter than the front which has caused many of us to add rear spacers to add to the looks of the car.
From the owners manual the tracks are listed:
F: 1475mm = 58.1 in.
R: 1440mm = 56.7 in.
A 15mm spacer would be needed on both rear hubs for the front and rear tracks to be equal. The simplest solution is a 20mm DTM spacer that already has studs. Many 15mm spacers and smaller require extended lug nuts to be fitted or there is not enough thread for the wheels to be safely installed. The rear fender has a little more flare than the fronts, so a 25mm spacer is more common which causes the rear track to be wider than the front. Due to the cost of and simplicity 4 identical sized wheels are run on all 4 corners of the st185. It make rotating tires much easier. Especially since the fronts wear much faster than the rears.
A lower offset wheel for the rear would be a better solution but due to the limited availability of low offset wheels in 5x100 bolt pattern, it is usually a costly option. Having different wheel offsets in the front vs the rear will prevent you from rotating them.
If you choose to go the custom route for rear wheels, you can use the track data along with the offset data to help you pick your custom sizes.

Staggered ET example: If I have a 17x9 30et wheel on the front of the car and I wanted a custom rear wheel. I would subtract the size of the spacer I would use from the offset's number to get my custom rear et. If I would use a 20mm rear spacer, then I would need a 10et rear wheel for the outside of the rim to sit in the same place as the 30et wheel with a 20mm spacer.

Note: spacers can be used on the front as well, but you may require longer studs depending on the spacer design and size.

Use this tool to compare new wheel offsets to the oem offset and determine proper fitment.
Offset calculator: http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp
A good comparison is using the stock width and offset (6.5 +39) as the minimum tolerance and a 9" width with +30et as maximum. If the wheels specs you are considering fall within these specs, you wheels will most likely fit.
Note: 17x9 30et wheels have been tested with proper fitment on alltracs with 25mm rear spacers. It may be possible to go slightly larger, but there is no verified data that there will be no rubbing. (see fender rolling)



• Extended wheel lugs:
These are a longer version of the wheel lugs. They are required for some aftermarket wheels, or if you are using a wheel spacer that does not have built in studs.



• Face design.
The stock alltrac brakes are not that larger or bulky, so most wheel's face designs will not be as much an issue. If you have larger or aftermarket brakes, you may need to go to the brake manufactures website and download a brake clearance gauge. It is a cut out piece of paper that will help you determine if the wheels you are considering will clear your brakes.


•Tire size:
Stock tire size is: 215/50/15
Here is a quick break down of the numbers.
215 = the tire width.
50 = Aspect ratio. This number is the % of the tire width. So the 50 means 50% of 215. A 50 profile of a 275 width tire will be taller than a 50 profile of a 205 tire because it is a percentage of the width section.
15 = wheel diameter. This number has to match the diameter of the wheels you use.
For further reading check out this link.
http://www.1010tires.com/tech.asp?type= ... ral#sizing

This is a very popular tool for helping you choose tire size.
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Most people want the same rolling diameter for their new tires as the oem. This will allow the speedo to read correctly. The rolling diameter of all 4 tires must be identical or very close to prevent damage to the center diff on the alltrac. More information on this damage can be found in these forums.
Tire width vs wheel width information can be found on the tire manufactures website or in this link.
http://www.1010tires.com/tech.asp?type= ... ral#sizing

Note: Some alltracs have made full race setups and run 275/40/17 sized race tires (which are larger in size than the standard street tire) with some modification under the fenders.
255/40/17, 255/45/17 Street tires have also be made to fit by only rolling the rear fenders. Larger tires for performance driving can be fitted but can change your rolling diameter. Make sure you do plenty of research when choosing a tire size for your car for safety and proper fitment.



• Fender rolling.
Rolling the rear fenders is often required when running a wider wheel with a low offset or spacer. It all depends on tire size and how much travel you have in your suspension. There is plenty of info on rolling fenders online. You can either have it done professionally, rent the tool yourself, or you can use a heat gun and baseball bat. Search the forums for more information.



• Compatible bolt pattern. Since 5x100 wheels are often difficult to find for the alltrac, here is a list of other cars that share the same 5x100 bolt pattern. This list may help you locate more wheel options.
Audi TT (99-up)
Buick Century (80-89)
Buick Skylark (81-97)
Buick Skyhawk (81-89)
Cadillac Cimmaron (81-88)
Chevrolet Beretta (87-up)
Chevrolet Cavalier (all)
Chevrolet Celebrity (80-89)
Chevrolet Citation (80-86)
Chevrolet Corisca (87-up)
Dodge Aries (86-89)
Dodge Daytona (85-93)
Dodge Dynasty (88-93)
Dodge Lancer (85-89)
Dodge Neon (97-up)
Dodge Neon (94-96 5 lug models)
Dodge Shadow (87-94)
Dodge Spirit (89-95)
Dodge Stratus Sedan (95-up)
Lexus ES 250 (90-91)
Oldsmobile Achieva (92-up)
Oldsmobile Ciera/Cutlass/Calias, non HD/cruiser model (82-91)
Oldsmobile Firenza (82-88)
Oldsmobile Omega (80-85)
Plymouth Acclaim (89-95)
Plymouth Breeze (96-up)
Plymouth Caravelle (85-89)
Plymouth Neon (96-up)
Plymouth Reliant (86-89)
Plymouth Sundance (84-94)
Plymouth Voyager (86-96)
Pontiac Fiero (84-88)
Pontiac Grand Am (85-98)
Pontiac Grand Prix (99-up)
Pontiac J-2000 (82-84)
Pontiac Phoenix, if came w/ factory 14s (83-84)
Pontiac Sunbird (85-94)
Pontiac Sunfire (95-up)
Pontiac 6000, some cars (82-89)
Pontiac Vibe (03-up)
Toyota Camry (83-91)
Toyota Celica (86-up)
Toyota Matrix (03-up)
Subaru Impreza, WRX (non-STi) (93-up)
Subaru Impreza WRX STi (04)
Subaru Legacy (95-up)
Volkswagen New Beetle (98-up)
Volkswagen Corrado V6 (93-94)
Volkswagen Golf V6 (93-98)
Volkswagen Golf (99-up)
Volkswagen Jetta V6 (93-98)
Volkswagen Jetta (99-up)
Volkswagen Passat V6 (92-97)




• Custom made wheels:
Some wheels can be custom ordered or made to your specs. After doing all the proper research and being willing to spend larger amounts of cash you can purchase wheels exactly the size you require. Here is a short list of some of the manufactures who make custom wheels. Expect to pay 500-1000 per wheel. (Prices not for the faint of heart.)
http://www.nyxracing.com/fikse-m-332.html?page=4
http://www.hrewheels.com/
http://www.raceengineering.com.au/wheels.htm
http://www.usacomp.com/
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/ame- ... 36451.html
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/work ... 11246.html
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/fiks ... 34409.html
http://www.mgracing.com/tracer.htm
http://www.german-wheels.com/
http://www.syronusa.com/Keskin_Wheels.html
http://www.syronusa.com/KT1_Classic.html

Others have been listed in the master wheel spec thread, so spend some time browsing other styles and specs or even share your own.


• So what will fit my car?
If you managed to read all this, and still have no clue I have compiled a list of photos with various specs for wheels and tires that have commonly fit the st185 widebody.



Stock 15x6.5 39et (No Spacer)
215/50/15
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



15x7 35et
Image



16x7 30et
Image



17x7 40et (25mm rear spacer)
205/40/17 (Same rolling diameter as stock)
Image
Image



17x7.5
235/40/17
Image

Image



17x7.5 33et
225/45/17
Image



16x8 38et
245/45/16
Image



17x8 35et
225/45/17
Image

Image

Image



17x8 30et
235/40/17
Image

Image



17x8 35et
225/45/17
Image

Image

Image



17x8 Front 31et , Rear 24et
Image


17x8 48et 15mm spacer: front, 25mm spacer: rear.
245/40/17
Image

Image

Image



18x8.5 35et.
25mm spacer: rear
255/35/18
Stock Suspension
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



17x9 38et
25mm spacer: rear
255/40/17
Tein HA coilovers
Image

Image

Image



17x9 30et
245/45/17
Stock suspension
Image

Image

Image

Image

17x9 25et (front), 3et (rear)
245/40/17
Image

Image

I did leave a few of the odder setups out to avoid confusion.
• Ask questions or post your wheels and specs in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

• This is another wheel gallery on the forums.
viewtopic.php?t=17765&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Last edited by CMS-GT4 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Griffin » Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:05 am

Indy3sgte wrote:Image
Image

IM IN LOVE!!! :D

How do I get my hands on a SSR rim? I went to the japan website but didnt completly understand...whats the best size to run w/these??

I finally think I found my rims! :P


www.tirerack.com they sell the GT2s which are what you like. I would imagine Roo can also get them.

Tirerack is where I got the 17x7.5" SSR Comps I have on my car:

Image
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Postby SBCelicaGT » Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:26 pm

roo wrote:another note, the Garage Cruise ST185 runs 17x9.5 all around but I can't figure out the offset because they have an aftermarket brake setup which often times changes the hub location.....meaning what offset works on their car may not work on a car with stock brake setup...I shall investigte further...


:?

Jason, are you sure you know what you are talking about? The hub is the part that rides on the bearings that sit inside the spindle. The drive axle sits inside the hub. Unless Garage Cruise has changed the hubs, using different brakes(i.e. Willwood's with a custom hat) will NOT change the hub location.

That aside, this is some good info. Nice job Jason. :)
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:11 pm

Here is the pic of the garage cruise car with 17x9.5.

Image
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Postby RedCelicaTRD » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:13 pm

Roo was talking about the mounting hub of the wheel itself. If you use a different rotor it may be thicker or thinner and cause rubbing if you get the wrong offset of wheel.
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Postby AWDios » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:35 pm

Ok, so as stated in the first post. 17x9 with a 30mm offset will fit front and rear, the fenders need to be rolled. What size tires would be the recomended size with this?

And then to Griffin, any reason you only went 17x7.5 and not wider?
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:45 pm

Not sure of the height, but his tires were 245 wide slicks which are wider then 245 street tires.

The garage cruise specs:
Wheels (17x9.5)
Tires F(225/40/17) R(245/45/17)

I have seen plenty of 235/40/17 on a 8" rim. I think with proper o/s and rolling etc.. you can get 245-255 street tires all around on a 9"-9.5" rim.
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Postby Indy3sgte » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:37 pm

Okay wat exactly does it mean to "be rolled"

also how hard is it to get a +40 offset on the st185 w/ 17 x 7??
What about 18 x 7.5 w/40 offset??


Doesnt 17 x 7 w/38+ offset fit perfect?
:shrug:
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Last edited by Indy3sgte on Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby roo » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:51 am

AWDios wrote:rolling the fenders, kind of pushes them out a little further for more room.


rolling the fenders is basically removing the plastic liner from the wheel wells and rolling the inner lip of sheet metal that it is attached to flat against the inside of te wheel well. (i wish i had pics...but it's much simpler than it seems)
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:33 pm

I got these pics from a member on gt4oc some time ago. This is a 17x8 rim with 30 o/s. This should give you an idea on how flush 30 o.s will be. It is fairly flush with the fender and does not stick out.
The tires in these pics are 235/40/17.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Seeing how flush it is, you may be able to go as far as 25 o/s.

Not sure how to calculate a "dished" wheel. perhaps finding the depth you want the dish vs the distance of the mounting point may show the mm need to adjust the o/s in order to have the dished look.
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Postby roo » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:31 pm

17x7.5J +35 will fit

I think that's vinyl on the car, not paint....


I've been busy...

http://www.cruise-power.co.jp/cgi52/cbb ... ace=0&no=0
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Postby turbo4wd » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:17 am

AWDios wrote:And that says?


He's asking if 17x9 inch wheels with a 24 offset will fit our ST185s and is also asking if the Garage Cruise car was #1: widebody and #2: were spacers used..
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Postby roo » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:24 am

Dai chan from Garage Cruise had this to say:

"The car has 40mm overfenders. We used 15mmthich hub adaptors to change the PCD from 100 to 114.3."

sooo....

The inside of the wheels are 138.75mm and the outside is 98.75mm.

One more thing to note...i think their car was a narrow body because ot doesn't look like a widebody with 40mm over fenders...
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