polyurethane bushing drawbacks

3DZ

Member
i want to upgrade my bushings but weighing if poly's are woth the hassel.

any one that has the superpro bushings installed.

what are the negative aspects of this parts?
 

Gary ST165

New member
upgrade?

some poly bush replacements do NOT function as well as the Toyota OEM original spherical bearings... :p

do NOT replace the bushings in the no.1 and no.2 rear arms with poly.

SA-65.jpg


use the original toyota part #

proceedurereardiffassemblypart1004.jpg


proceedurereardiffassemblypart1008.jpg


proceedurereardiffassemblypart1057.jpg


proceedurediffpropalignment033.jpg
 

lumbercis

Moderator
I remember someone offhandedly mentioning that they had problems with accelerated wear with Superpro poly bushings. They said the bushings were real tight at first, but after a while developed alot of "play" which of course, was what you are trying to get rid of with poly in the first place.

Anyone have any other issues with this? Have you checked your poly bushings lately to see if they have developed any play?

One other issue that someone mentioned is that going all poly can make the rear too stiff. But I don't remember if they were talking about only ride quality or handling as well.

J.
 

Wolf_Tm250

New member
Gary ST165":t79bpori said:
upgrade?

some poly bush replacements do NOT function as well as the Toyota OEM original spherical bearings... :p


Hi Gary...

are you the Gary from UK that tried to make an aftermarket bushing for the figure "8" link of the Superstrut ST205 suspension ?

:D
 

Gary ST165

New member
Wolf_Tm":2fn86x0p said:
Hi Gary...

are you the Gary from UK that tried to make an aftermarket bushing for the figure "8" link of the Superstrut ST205 suspension ?

:D

fig 8: not me :shrug:
 

Wolf_Tm250

New member
Gary ST165":26ox31id said:
Wolf_Tm":26ox31id said:
Hi Gary...

are you the Gary from UK that tried to make an aftermarket bushing for the figure "8" link of the Superstrut ST205 suspension ?

:D

fig 8: not me :shrug:


So, definitely, he was another Gary from UK !

Bye !!
 

RIalltrac

Active member
lumbercis":3spgitu1 said:
I remember someone offhandedly mentioning that they had problems with accelerated wear with Superpro poly bushings. They said the bushings were real tight at first, but after a while developed alot of "play" which of course, was what you are trying to get rid of with poly in the first place.

Anyone have any other issues with this? Have you checked your poly bushings lately to see if they have developed any play?

One other issue that someone mentioned is that going all poly can make the rear too stiff. But I don't remember if they were talking about only ride quality or handling as well.

J.

I have the superpro's on my car, the rear is way stiff, but I also have the rear whiteline strut bar & sway bar. On certain tight uphill turns I can manage to get the rear drivers wheel off the ground. I've had the bushings in for roughly 35-40k and some of the bushings on the front end are going. I'm getting a lot of play and you can hear things moving around in a popping sort of fashion. Not fantastic, but they have been in for quite some time. The sounds started up about 5-10k ago. I've just been too lazy and cheap to get replacements. My car is a daily driver and is probably a bad example for most people who only use thier's on a limited basis. For the typical weekend warrior I doubt you'd ever have to replace a single bushing. Oh and fyi the roads in RI are absolutely horrible, probably another situation that led to thier early demise.
 

___Scott___

Active member
I have 34K miles on my SuperPro bushings, and they still feel good. It is important to grease them up real good when you put them in, and if they ever start to squeek it's time to re-grease them.
 

tw2

New member
Gary ST165":1xcfwqha said:
some poly bush replacements do NOT function as well as the Toyota OEM original spherical bearings... :p

do NOT replace the bushings in the no.1 and no.2 rear arms with poly.
Do you mean just the outer bushings? so 1 for each arm which I think you can only get from toyota anyway or do you mean the inside ones for each arm also?
 

Gary ST165

New member
both. Do NOT replace either inside or outside rear arm bushes with poly.
I do not believe the poly will behave in the same way as the OEM under loading.

I do NOT have a part number for the inside bush. Hence, little choice at i the moment. Either buy new arms from Toyota or suck it and see with a poly bush.









While browsing through the EPC looking for Toyota suspension arm spherical bearings i noticed an alternative sized MA70 supra bushing:

MA704872514040002.jpg



however i ordered them by mistake , :doh: and i can't find them at the moment to measure up and see if they suit the inner bushes..... my bad.


Edit 07/06/2007:

i measured the bushings:
45.22mm length
k911cc013.jpg

34.10mm OD
k911cc014.jpg


don't think they will fit, based on bushing info on the superflex applications pdf

idea: maybe one of these bushing part numbers will fit the inside rear arms ??? :shrug: trial and error.






anyone got a ma70 supra being broken near them?

>>> need to measure the control arm bushings.....

MA70pnc48725.jpg
 

lumbercis

Moderator
Has anyone ever considered that replacing everything with poly might make your handling worse rather than better? I don't have the experience to answer that question myself, Im just putting it out there as food for thought. The general tone seems to be stiffer=better. But does that really hold on the streets? On the road course?

If you watch some of those japanese touge videos where Tsuchiya comments on the cars, it's not always the stiffest car which is the best handling. He comments all the time on some cars being set up too stiff. It seems that a certain amount of flexing may be good for handling over bumpy road surfaces that you would find on the street.

Another issue is this: are all the poly replacements cheaper than OEM? If you are just trying to freshen up an older car with worn bushes, then are you better off getting everything poly, or getting some OEM? Do things like those huge subframe bushings really develop that much play?

J.
 

RedCelicaTRD

Moderator
lumbercis":3056zmeb said:
If you watch some of those japanese touge videos where Tsuchiya comments on the cars, it's not always the stiffest car which is the best handling.

You aren't even getting close to how stiff those cars are just by replacing bushings. Besides, its your shock/spring combo that absorbs the road irregularities and if those are to stiff then you have problems.
 

Gary ST165

New member
Mafix":35i667zf said:
some OEM bearings require the purchase of the entire arm. so poly is cheaper!


thats why i'm hoping that an alternative toyota bushing can be sourced eg from an MA70 or otherwise...


Brand new OEM bushings are far far superior to poly. Having initially bought a complete poly kit... i was very disappointed with the fitment. I have since re-replaced and used new OEM where ever possible. control arms, diff mount, subframe bushing etc.


lumbercis":35i667zf said:
Do things like those huge subframe bushings really develop that much play?
J.


after 10 years and 1500kg. the rubber has perished due to age.

after 15 years.... well there was not really much left to be honest, other than alot of this:



the best of the rest:




















 

Gary ST165

New member
we used a press to push out the subframe bushings:










i have also seen them removed by burning away or pushing out the rubber, and then hammering out the bush casing.

bozo-merlin did similar on his "la grosse" project:

IMG_2753.JPG


IMG_2754.JPG


IMG_2755.JPG


IMG_2756.JPG
 

lumbercis

Moderator
Awesome pics Gary! Would make a good how-to sticky.

Couple questions:

1. Okay, sorry for the newbness, but what exactly is a "press?" Is it just the metal sleeve in the pics above? Do you just pound on it to force the bushing out? Or is it some type of machine that presses the bushing out?

2. How do you feel about the poly bushings for the diff carrier that come with mario's kit? Im leaning more towards going all-OEM and relying on my coilovers and swaybar to do the stiffening up, esp since I will be a rank beginner on the road course (once I actually get out onto one). :D My choices are between 1) Going with the C-One diff mount and OEM carrier bushings, or 2) getting Mario's kit. Whats your opinion between the two?

J.
 

Gary ST165

New member
lumbercis":2lkv10qy said:
what exactly is a "press?" Is it just the metal sleeve in the pics above? Do you just pound on it to force the bushing out? Or is it some type of machine that presses the bushing out?


we used a modified hydraulic ram. also good for pressing out wheel bearings:





lumbercis":2lkv10qy said:
2. How do you feel about the poly bushings for the diff carrier that come with mario's kit? Im leaning more towards going all-OEM and relying on my coilovers and swaybar to do the stiffening up, esp since I will be a rank beginner on the road course (once I actually get out onto one). :D My choices are between 1) Going with the C-One diff mount and OEM carrier bushings, or 2) getting Mario's kit. Whats your opinion between the two?

I'm using a combination of marios nylon diff carrier mounts and an OEM rubber toyota diff mount.




I used just 2 of marios bushes because i got them cheap and delivered fast from a guy in the UK who never used them when he replaced his diff mount. The Toyota bushings would have been on 2 week back order from Belgium. I didn't have the option to wait that long.
The solid bushings seem fine when used with the new OEM bushes throughout the remainder of the rear sub-frame. I certainly have not noticed any additional noise or vibration increase as a result of fitting 2 nylon bushes. In fact the previous clunking noises have disappeared :lol:

My only criticism is that the inserts were manufactured of mild steel > think rust :? Best ask mario if he has revised the inserts supplied.

I really like the feel and design of new Toyota rubber bushings. If you can afford them, then i would not hesitate to advise replacing them for fast road use. It makes the car feel like the day when it left the factory:- no more "4 wheel steer" type scary moments.

For road use, I think the key to avoiding unwanted vibration in to the cabin, is to retain the 4 main rubber sub-frame bushings.
If you were to fit solid mounts then i think it would ruin the pleasure of fast road driving.

Restoring the rear sub-frame will further highlight any failings of an old cars suspension. I went the hole hog and also fitted DMS coil overs and 450 lb-in springs. Result superb dampening, adequate travel to prevent coil bound, and acceptable body roll using stock sway bars). A complete transformation from a very tired 17 year old to a new car feel. grip is now my best friend.

From my experience you cant go wrong if using new Toyota parts. good for another 10 years road use. However the cost of buying and fitting OEM parts for a 17 year old sports car is never going to be cheap.




I have also driven a friends high horse power 185 with a solid diff mount "temp fix" but with factory rubber diff carrier bushings.
The welded up diff mount was "fixed" as in successfully repaired. no additional vibrations. To date the repair has withstood over 300 ft lbs torque atw for 10,000 miles.






I have no comment regarding using a solid rear diff carrier AND a solid aluminum mount, having never experienced that combination.



The C-one diff mount also looks to be up to the job. best ask Rene (Meurz) for his feedback.

hth 8)
 
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