1st gen 3SGE

celicaGTS_T

New member
I came across a 1st gen 3SGE and was wondering if it would be worth it to swap it into my '90 GTS. A buddy of mine is selling a '88GTS coupe with a 3SGE for $500. Storage space is limited, so i was wondering before I buy it, is it worth the trouble?
 

Rick89GTS

New member
Probably not worth the hassle as they have the same HP.
Add in the fact that you'll need the 3SGE ECU, wiring and all ancilliaries for no gain in HP and a loss in low-end torque and it's a no-brainer.

The 3SGE is a beautiful engine and performs better at the top end but for city driving, you're not gaining much.
 

Rick89GTS

New member
2nd gen 3SGE puts out about 156 na HP but again, you'll need all the extras.
Not sure about the HP of the 3rd Gen (+/- 175 hp?) but if you're gonna go through the time and trouble of a motor swap, it might as well be the 3SGTE , where you get 200 HP.
 

celicaGTS_T

New member
Well, I was looking for a another route instead of the 3SGTE. Thats why I'm interested in the 3SGE or maybe the BEAMS engine
 

Rick89GTS

New member
BEAMS is very nice but rare n/a power (from what little I know about them).
It wouldn't surprise me if it was pricier than a 3SGTE though. Give Toysport a shout and see what they say. I could've swore there was someone on this site who purchased one....was it Bryan from Sask? aka Flyin' Bryan?
 

pokemeintheeye

New member
The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block. You'll have more horsepower and more low end torque. Of course though. The ecu and wiring harness will be needed. You did say its coming from a friend's car? I'm sure you can work up a deal with him.
 

Toxygene

Active member
The Beams 3sge is a nice engine. It's like having a JDM Integra Type R engine though. If I remember correctly I believe it makes about 200HP NA. Only problem is that it doesn't have a lot of low end torque. But again it's like a Type R motor. You need to rev the snot out of it to get it going. The weight of the car will also be a factor with this motor.

I've seen listings for this engine on E-bay and on the net. It's more expensive than a 3SGTE which then begs the question, "what you intend to do with the car?" The 3SGTE has more power potential but then it's also a heavier motor.

The other option you could do is a V6 swap. I believe that with a Camry V6 and the TRD supercharger you could be very happy with the power output and the daily driveability. Plus expense wise I believe it would fall between the 3SGTE and 3SGE swap.

It would be interesting to see a 3SGE swap done and then get either the Cusco lightweight hood or a CF hoodh, the CS bumper which is also lighter than the US bumper. Then keep pushing for the CF hatch to be made. Hopefully if you could lighten up the car you'd have a decent auto X car.

The 3SGTE has tons of power potential which will make up for it's weight. It wouldn't hurt to still try to lighten up the car but then you will be working for a balance between turbo lag and power. This would probably be better for a drag car.

The V6 swap will weigh about the same as the 3SGTE. I remember reading this several times. So the difference is in the Torque you get and with the TRD supercharger you obviously can tune in some more power and torque and you'd have no turbo lag to deal with. Not quite the power potential you get with the 3SGTE but the torque will make up for this in some respects.

As far as attaining these engines, you could possibly get front clips for the 3SGE Beams, and the 3SGTE. You might have to find someone local to get the V6. But then if you go this route you could get all the ancilliaries and the ECU you'd need to make the swap work.

Sorry for the novel... lol :D
 

Rick89GTS

New member
pokemeintheeye":3gvw8bax said:
The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block. You'll have more horsepower and more low end torque....
Has anyone ever done this successfully before?
Seems like anyone who has attempted this has ended up with a melted motor....
 

pokemeintheeye

New member
Actually, it is that easy. Plenty of people have done. Not much write up on it though. 3sgte heads have been swapped onto 5sfe blocks as well. That one takes more work but a non-turbo 3sge head will drop right on. Best to use a '92 plus block.

Most 3sge head swaps usually get turbocharged later down the road.
 

pokemeintheeye

New member
I've only began coming on here. I haven't had a reason in the past considering I've only just bought a turbo celica a month ago. I'm active around the nonturbo forums. Alltrac owners are familiar with turbo alltracs. It seems many don't bother to familiarize themselves with the nonturbo engines much. Can't blame them.

Not very many people do 3sge head swaps/5sfe block swaps cause really, if you're gonna do all that work might as well go all the way correct? So instead many people who have thought about a 3sge head swap just move right up to a 3sgte engine swap. The power gains from a 5sfe block with a 1st gen 3sge head isn't anything too exciting. So people who have done it seek more power. So they go turbo. Many Toyota tuners are secretive about their projects. So you don't notice people doing these swaps until one day they decide to sell parts of their project cause they're going a different route. If there were more Celica's with a stock 3sge engine I'm sure more people would do the block swap. 4th gen gt-s aren't that easy to find. A good condition one especially. Doing a head swap is already half way through a complete swap. Considering you would need to do some wiring, a 3sge ecu and those accesories like ignition coil, distributer and such. For the little power gain, its just not worth much for those with a 5th gen and 6th gen Celica. Its a good swap for those with a 4th gen though.
 

wizzards581

New member
Rick89GTS":3fl3hno8 said:
pokemeintheeye":3fl3hno8 said:
The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block.....

Not that easy, it takes quite a bit of engineering for very little gain.
This guy did it, it looked like a success but then the motor started to self-destruct.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17078

looks like a sucess.. he said he beat a 94 prelude h23... :shrug: no problems he said...
 

Mafix

New member
it looks like it works fine, but unless you have that crap laying around then why bother?
and for the record an h23 prelude is a dog.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ive done it. ran 2 full race seaons on it turning 7500-7900 rpms every lap without a single engine problem. :smokes: no melt down for me :shock: wasn't that hard to do just like an engine build no big deal.
 

celicaGTS_T

New member
Wow, i totally forgot about this thread haha.... well i went a different route (as some might know: 3sfe instead of 3sge). nice smooth torque curve, good low end torque and you cant even tell its been swapped haha
 
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