P06 Honda conversion, poor mans EMS

bozo-merlin

New member
I am interrested in your idea

do you take a VTEC honda ECU to keep low impedance injectors? (ODB-0)

or

do you take a JDM B18 ECU to control knock ? (ODB-1)


a friend of mine tell me the same mod, but with nissan ECU as CA18DET or SR20DET use individual coil (my dream on a 3SGTE)
 

88Allheeze

New member
i kept my same low impedance injectors and kept my ballast reistor for the injectors, you can take any honda ecu and make it work as long as its odb1... maybe u could get a obd 0 and make that work also but theres more programming easly available for odb1.

The honda knock boards are crap, they cant read knock under boost correctly or even forged internals. always reading phantom knock!
 

gearhead313

New member
88Allheeze":47wb594w said:
, they cant read knock under boost correctly or even forged internals. always reading phantom knock!

this is true, yet they are actually so good that they can read NA knock very well.
 

concealer404

New member
P61 also has an onboard knock board, and it's regarded as actually being very good. Good enough that we felt comfortable enough to test it on 87 octane to see if it would pull timing and all that jazz to prevent from blowing the engine, and it did. (93 Integra GS-R) No matter how much we beat on it.

Good luck finding one in the US, though. Only came on 92-93 GS-Rs w/ B17a engine. Much like the alltracs, only 3000 ever came over here.

There are also knock board add-ons for most honda OBD0-OBD1 ecus. I also think that some of them were randomly put on from factory, as i've tuned a few P32s that had them, and the owners definitely had not put them on, and were entirely confused when they saw that extra board in there.

You can get conversion harnesses to go from OBD2-OBD1, and i believe OBD0-OBD1 anyways. You can purchase pretty much anything you need from moates.net. They also have the equipment for datalogging and real-time tuning, e-prom burners and all that good stuff.

I know this is old, but Bozo-merlin, you should be able to use pretty much any mid 90s honda ECU, even if it's coming out of a Civic DX with no knock or vtec.

88Allheeze, when this is finished, if it's not already, i would be extremely interested to see a write-up, if you don't mind. :)
 

88Allheeze

New member
I have been finished for a long time, it works great, I have already traded the write up or plans for this a couple times.
 

concealer404

New member
88Allheeze":aky3y2uq said:
I have been finished for a long time, it works great, I have already traded the write up or plans for this a couple times.

Oh. :(

I searched around for the write up for awhile, is it posted on this site somewhere? If it is, i'll keep looking.
 

88Allheeze

New member
no i didnt, i just went ahead and got a 4.0L jeep TB to go on my tubular intake manifold im making.

By spring ill have my cams, 57trim t3/t4, tubular intake and exhaust manifold with a wild ported head.. I cant wait!

Did you get urs up and running with the honda ecu yet?
 

polarmoment

New member
so you are using ECUcontrol for logging/tuning? did you have to do anything special to get the RTP to work with crome? i've got freelog running pretty smoothly on my MR2 now, and slowly picking my way through the maps.. i've read that RTP is buggy at best, but i'm trading a guy a harness for a bunch of boards and i have a free NVSRAM coming, so i plan to give it a try.. are you using cromepro? or free?


i'm using the stock idle control valve as well, just grounded the RSC pin and let the ECU operate the RSO pin.

i also set mine up to work with the stock toyota ignitor. it requires an RTL inverter consisting of 3 resistors and a transistor (any switching NPN works):

IGTconverter.jpg


essentially, the honda ignitor expects a signal that is pulled to 12v when the coil is inactive, then pulled to ground when the coil is to charge, then pulled back to 12V to fire the coil. the 3SGTE's ignitor expects to see a signal that is pulled to ground when the coil is inactive. the ignitor controls dwell, so it determines when to start charging the coil. the ignitor sees a 5v signal to arm, then pulled to ground to fire the coil. the above circuit accomplishes this. if used with a civic/integra distributor, you could use a honda prelude cap and retain the stock toyota coil/ignitor arrangement.



this is an excel file i made with the wiring harness pinouts for honda and toyota and where to connect them. this is for a gen2, 91 MR2, so it should work for the appropriate ST185 engine:
http://www.apexology.com/files/schemati ... _PGMFI.xls

keep in mind that honda numbers their pins alternating top and bottom rows, while toyota numbers them left to right, top then bottom. the spreadsheed is converted to the toyota style, so the honda side will not match up with the pinouts on the honda sites.
 

polarmoment

New member
i had also thought about using a GM CALPACK for filtering the knock sensor to a digital 0-5v pulse, then using that pulse to pull the IAT line to ground and set up like 9-10* retard at full hot for the IAT, decaying with an RC time constant. wouldn't be able to log it, but it would theoretically pull timing under knock and then decay back to normal..

mostly thinking on paper on that one though.
 

cardude

New member
88Allheeze":xpr6e9dq said:
I have been finished for a long time, it works great, I have already traded the write up or plans for this a couple times.
do you have them all written up already? I wouldnt mind looking at them. Mostly to satisfy curiosity because I dont have the money right now but I might look into this for a year or two down the road. So dont go out of the way to get them to me if it requires extra work.
 

88Allheeze

New member
polarmoment":2dwkesfs said:
so you are using ECUcontrol for logging/tuning? did you have to do anything special to get the RTP to work with crome? i've got freelog running pretty smoothly on my MR2 now, and slowly picking my way through the maps.. i've read that RTP is buggy at best, but i'm trading a guy a harness for a bunch of boards and i have a free NVSRAM coming, so i plan to give it a try.. are you using cromepro? or free?


I got rtp to work great.. no buggyness at all, search the honda forums and read how to make it. Im using cromepro and sometimes use ecucontrol just for fun. heres one piece of advice, use a dallas nvsram, dont get a sst or anyother brand. they work better. Making maps is real easy, I think i tuned my car in a few hours..
 

polarmoment

New member
cool. the NVSRAM i got was from maxim/dallas.. they do ship out free samples of the DS1230Y, so i have one of those sitting on my desk. i can't wait to give it a try.. i might have to splurge for the crome pro license as well, since it'll likely be a bit of a bitch to try to log in freelog and then close the port so i can make changes in crome. i don't seem to have any time to work on the car though, so tuning is taking forever... the vac side of the maps drives stronger than it did stock though, so that's excellent. it revs a lot more freely without the AFM loading the motor up with fuel.

i'm anxious for eCtune to come out too..
 

polarmoment

New member
i'm on stock 440s. i'm using one of your ignition maps paired with one of my fuel maps. if i remember right, it's the #3 pulled timing map mixed with a fuel map from a nemesis tune i found.

i'm still getting the hang of the multiplier thing in crome. i can't seem to get any P30 roms to run in my car though. only the P72's work so far.
 

polarmoment

New member
that's what i had heard too. i can't even get the P30 to start the engine for some reason. every time i try it only cranks and i get a solid CEL. i've been sticking with the P72 for the IAB control, and i plan to use the VTEC solenoid output for staged injection/antilag eventually. i had wanted to P30 ROM for the TPS calibration, as the P72 isn't supported yet, but it's weird.. i'll have to try it again starting from scratch.
 

88Allheeze

New member
crome already has anti lag or launch control, it cuts the ignition to push air and spin the turbo, I can build a usual 10psi off the launch.. are u burning chips or using a nvsram? with the chips you got to start the address at 8000 to burn the 2nd half of the chip well if ur using a 512 chip like most people do
 

polarmoment

New member
weird. i though crome's FTL cut fuel, not ignition..

i was gonna use the VTEC maps to drive on, but have it hold the motor on the low cam map for the launch, then dump fuel and pull timing right where the launch rpm is set.

yeah, i'm using the 512 chips, but they burn just fine. i think i have a different version of crome than you had on the maps you emailed me, that's why i can't get them to run on the car (since i also have to scale for stock injectors). i'll keep working on it, but i'm liking the P72 based map i'm working with now as well. idle is almost perfect at 800rpm, off boost driveability is amazing even on a cold engine, and i'm just now gettiing to tuning boost. i only have about half an hour every 3rd or 4th day to play with it, but i'm making progress..
 

killer_siller

New member
i know i'm pulling this back from the dead, but i'm researching running my 4A-GE on PGM-FI. there's a guy on mr2oc.com that has a few 3s-gtes running on PGM-FI. when i get the link i'll post it.
 
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