Project Add power to make Sith - waiting for new home 8/20
- Thread starter darthripley
- Start date
Nitro_Alltrac
New member
etantshi":39usjydz said:
Hang around here long enough and it happens.
darthripley
Moderator
Everyone does the 205 front brakes differently, so please just consider this a basic guide.
I'm not responsible for anything that may happen to your car or you if you attempt to do this - brakes are obviously an integral part of the safety of the car and in turn yourself.
Before purchasing ST205 brakes, you must have a minimum of 16" rims & you better make sure you have rims that can clear the calipers.
16" stock 7th gen rims will not clear the calipers.
I know that 16" SSR Competition rims will & our 16" Speedlines also clear with plenty of room.
The Rear ST205 brakes are a straight bolt on for a ST185.
The only mod necessary will be you can either cut off the dust shield or bend/massage it out of the way for the rotor.
The rotor can retain the original diameter of 315mm and the 2 pot calipers bolt on with original ST185 hardware.
No fuss no muss.
Now onto the front brakes.
First we had the rotors milled down 9mm, so now the front rotors have an overall diameter of 306mm.
You could still have 1-2mm of rotor that could be milled off without having the brake pad hang off the rotor.
A lot of it depends on using different sized bolts to move the back half of the caliper further out to the rotor.
We also had the front rotors turned for a new surface to use with old pads which we later sanded down to avoid any high spots forming.
You will have to use a spacer to allow the rotor to clear the lower ball joint.
We chose to use an Ichiba 5mm spacer and we had the diameter of the spacer milled down 4mm so it would fit inside the rotor hat.
The machine shop was kind enough to bevel the edge for a perfect fit.
We also used extended studs which are an absolute pain in the arse to get into the hub.
After struggling getting 1 stud in the hub, we realized that putting oil on the threads allows the extended studs to go in much smoother.
(we don't have a press - hence the ghetto operation pictured)
and for those of you wondering - yes i really do help work on Vadar, even the tough jobs.
unless you take apart your hubs and a set of 205 hubs to use the 205 dust shields, you will have to do something about the 185 brake dust shield up front since it is in the way.
we chose the easy route which was to cut off the dust shield
to fit the caliper on and get it to center onto the rotor, you must grind off 2-3mm. basically you have to compensate for the spacer so hence the grinding. you can see here in the pic below where joe ground the caliper on the "ears" and how the ST205 calipers "split" in half.
since the hub is 54.1mm on an ST185 and 55mm on a ST205 we again used a little metal ring on the inside of the brake rotor to keep it on the hub nice and snug.
here are the extended studs on along with spacer & just enough space to clear the rotor.
just enough space to clear the lower ball joint:
we used technafit 185 SS brake lines which work perfectly with the 205 calipers. at full lock there is a tiny bit of stretch in the line, but nothing to be concerned about.
here is one side all installed along with new ss lines:
the caliper on one side is only a tiny bit off center, but close enough for govt. inspection
installed completely with pads & hardware:
we used Motul brake fluid too which helps immensely
do not forget to torque the calipers down to 75ft lbs ... this was 1 of the causes of the problems we encountered.
also use good bolts and fasteners so the calipers will not slide down and wear the inside of your rim, which also happened to us.
Finally, here is a comparison before & after.
ST185 stock brakes before:
ST205 front brakes now:
was it worth it upgrading the brakes?
DEFINITELY!
excluding performance mods & the short shifter, this was one of the most important/most noticable mods we have done so far.
we put the brakes through their paces on some twisty roads in the hill country in Austin and they performed very well.
they did something the old brakes didn't do, which was STOP!
without going through the floor pan to stop fred flintstone style either.
the 205 brakes have also done something the old brakes never did ... there is brake dust on the rims for the first time -- amazing! :twisted:
yes, the 205 brakes are much heavier, so just like any BBK you will add weight & take away from the whp of the car.
however, i feel it is worth it for the safety aspect as well as any track events we may want to do in the future.
not only that i feel with performance pads, the brakes can support the amount of hp & tq we will hopefully be making in the future.
for the final price - everything cost to do the entire brake project - it was about half the cost of a brand new Wilwood 4pot setup for the fronts only.
for those sticking to a tight budget, this is an inexpensive oem BBK that not only looks amazing but performs head & shoulders above the oem setup which is lackluster at best imho.
i may have left something out, so please feel free to ask any questions.
Now, Vadar has proper stoppers more becoming a Sith Lord 8)
I'm not responsible for anything that may happen to your car or you if you attempt to do this - brakes are obviously an integral part of the safety of the car and in turn yourself.
Before purchasing ST205 brakes, you must have a minimum of 16" rims & you better make sure you have rims that can clear the calipers.
16" stock 7th gen rims will not clear the calipers.
I know that 16" SSR Competition rims will & our 16" Speedlines also clear with plenty of room.
The Rear ST205 brakes are a straight bolt on for a ST185.
The only mod necessary will be you can either cut off the dust shield or bend/massage it out of the way for the rotor.
The rotor can retain the original diameter of 315mm and the 2 pot calipers bolt on with original ST185 hardware.
No fuss no muss.
Now onto the front brakes.
First we had the rotors milled down 9mm, so now the front rotors have an overall diameter of 306mm.
You could still have 1-2mm of rotor that could be milled off without having the brake pad hang off the rotor.
A lot of it depends on using different sized bolts to move the back half of the caliper further out to the rotor.
We also had the front rotors turned for a new surface to use with old pads which we later sanded down to avoid any high spots forming.
You will have to use a spacer to allow the rotor to clear the lower ball joint.
We chose to use an Ichiba 5mm spacer and we had the diameter of the spacer milled down 4mm so it would fit inside the rotor hat.
The machine shop was kind enough to bevel the edge for a perfect fit.
We also used extended studs which are an absolute pain in the arse to get into the hub.
After struggling getting 1 stud in the hub, we realized that putting oil on the threads allows the extended studs to go in much smoother.
(we don't have a press - hence the ghetto operation pictured)
and for those of you wondering - yes i really do help work on Vadar, even the tough jobs.
unless you take apart your hubs and a set of 205 hubs to use the 205 dust shields, you will have to do something about the 185 brake dust shield up front since it is in the way.
we chose the easy route which was to cut off the dust shield
to fit the caliper on and get it to center onto the rotor, you must grind off 2-3mm. basically you have to compensate for the spacer so hence the grinding. you can see here in the pic below where joe ground the caliper on the "ears" and how the ST205 calipers "split" in half.
since the hub is 54.1mm on an ST185 and 55mm on a ST205 we again used a little metal ring on the inside of the brake rotor to keep it on the hub nice and snug.
here are the extended studs on along with spacer & just enough space to clear the rotor.
just enough space to clear the lower ball joint:
we used technafit 185 SS brake lines which work perfectly with the 205 calipers. at full lock there is a tiny bit of stretch in the line, but nothing to be concerned about.
here is one side all installed along with new ss lines:
the caliper on one side is only a tiny bit off center, but close enough for govt. inspection
installed completely with pads & hardware:
we used Motul brake fluid too which helps immensely
do not forget to torque the calipers down to 75ft lbs ... this was 1 of the causes of the problems we encountered.
also use good bolts and fasteners so the calipers will not slide down and wear the inside of your rim, which also happened to us.
Finally, here is a comparison before & after.
ST185 stock brakes before:
ST205 front brakes now:
was it worth it upgrading the brakes?
DEFINITELY!
excluding performance mods & the short shifter, this was one of the most important/most noticable mods we have done so far.
we put the brakes through their paces on some twisty roads in the hill country in Austin and they performed very well.
they did something the old brakes didn't do, which was STOP!
without going through the floor pan to stop fred flintstone style either.
the 205 brakes have also done something the old brakes never did ... there is brake dust on the rims for the first time -- amazing! :twisted:
yes, the 205 brakes are much heavier, so just like any BBK you will add weight & take away from the whp of the car.
however, i feel it is worth it for the safety aspect as well as any track events we may want to do in the future.
not only that i feel with performance pads, the brakes can support the amount of hp & tq we will hopefully be making in the future.
for the final price - everything cost to do the entire brake project - it was about half the cost of a brand new Wilwood 4pot setup for the fronts only.
for those sticking to a tight budget, this is an inexpensive oem BBK that not only looks amazing but performs head & shoulders above the oem setup which is lackluster at best imho.
i may have left something out, so please feel free to ask any questions.
Now, Vadar has proper stoppers more becoming a Sith Lord 8)
darthripley
Moderator
Nitro_Alltrac":gunk138u said:
LOL :lol:
i'm afraid i've said tits & other naughty words long before i ever came here lol
they used to say it ALL the time on some of the honda forums ... if anything was cool, all those guys would say "that's tits!" or "totally tits!"
I actually noticed the weight difference to be slightly negligable. The st185 calipers and brackets are iron and are extremely heavy. The st205 caliper is aluminum needs no bracket and thus is lighter, however the rotor is heavier on the st205 vs the st185. I personally don't think there are many if at all downsides to this mod aside from having to get front pads from only a handfull of places (and not being able to run my OZ rally racing wheels...).
Question:
Are there any negative remarks about having the front rotors slightly smaller than the rear rotors?
Other than that, I want me some ST205 brakes now. They look very nice and I would love the performance upgrade as well. But since I am on a tight budget, I'll be just upgrading the stockers. Love following and reading about this car and its upgrades.
Are there any negative remarks about having the front rotors slightly smaller than the rear rotors?
Other than that, I want me some ST205 brakes now. They look very nice and I would love the performance upgrade as well. But since I am on a tight budget, I'll be just upgrading the stockers. Love following and reading about this car and its upgrades.
Makes me wish I had just gone the 205 route instead of new pads, rotors, and rebuilding the 185's.
Oh well.
Good start on the write up, I'm sure a lot of it would make more sense when having the parts in hand.
Maybe you could include links to where to get the spacers, exactly what you had done to them (i.e. what you asked the shop to do). Also, where exactly were the rotors ground down? And prices on everything- if you don't mind. Thanks.
-Towels
Oh well.
Good start on the write up, I'm sure a lot of it would make more sense when having the parts in hand.
Maybe you could include links to where to get the spacers, exactly what you had done to them (i.e. what you asked the shop to do). Also, where exactly were the rotors ground down? And prices on everything- if you don't mind. Thanks.
-Towels
WarTowels":2b259i4w said:Maybe you could include links to where to get the spacers, exactly what you had done to them (i.e. what you asked the shop to do). Also, where exactly were the rotors ground down? And prices on everything- if you don't mind. Thanks.
-Towels
Well, we got the Ichiba spacers from twosrus.com but that was the last that they had - :doh:
What you need to look for is a Toyota Application for the 5mm spacers with extended studs with 5 x100 and 54.1mm center bore.
Here is a google search on the spacers themselves.. they can be had from many places:
http://www.google.com/products?sourceid ... 1&ct=title
As far as what was done on the spacers and the rotors:
Spacers - milled down approx 4mm in order to fit inside the rotor.
Rotor - milled down 9mm in order to clear the calipers.
milled down = Reducing the outside daimeter
We just took them to a local machine shop and told them what we needed done. They put it on a lathe and milled them down.
As far as price.. total price for all 4 corners were a little less than half of the Willwood front kit from Rocketeer Motorsports:
http://www.rocketeerperformance.com/cat ... 49263bf47f
darthripley
Moderator
Corey Darling":1jn0izuf said:
Corey, I'm not 100% sure if the calipers will clear OZ Cronos, but this guy got his to clear a set, not sure if these are the same width & offset as yours, but it looks promising.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r1biker/20 ... st185.html
imho, this guy milled too much off his rotors, but like i have said before, i think everyone has fitted them up slightly different.
here is another page where a different guy fit his 205 brakes behind a set of different OZ's
http://www.celicagtfour.com/205_brake_upgrade.htm
i know we did ours slightly different from etantshi, so again that's why i just wrote up more of a basic guide as to how we accomplished it since i really feel there is no utterly definitive method to fit the ST205 fronts onto a ST185.
Denver_whiteST185
New member
etantshi":egompq4o said:
well, supra TT pads will work. there are plenty of places that carry them...
oh, and to add to the list of wheels that will work, 16x8 enkie RP-01 +38's will clear them
stock 7th gen wheels will NOT work...
Denver_whiteST185
New member
7th gens will not fit around the caliper radially. thats something a spacer wont fix.
I thought supra pads would work up front. i guess i need to check my sources again...
I thought supra pads would work up front. i guess i need to check my sources again...
Nitro_Alltrac
New member
justjoe":dc7jpda3 said:Here is the proper response to what Ripley said:
:rofl:
darthripley
Moderator
one of the guys at 6gc.net made a video of the meet in Austin we went to a couple of weeks ago.
you can see the 1mz swapped & also a GT2 was there along with some other clean 6th gens.
please be sure to watch all the way thru - Vadar has a little cameo at the end 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyIjk9U11VA
you can see the 1mz swapped & also a GT2 was there along with some other clean 6th gens.
please be sure to watch all the way thru - Vadar has a little cameo at the end 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyIjk9U11VA
Nitro_Alltrac
New member
Vadar has a most excellent roll in the video! He represented the All Trac crowd very well amongst the 6th gen cars!
It looks like you guys had a great time! Makes me jealous!
It looks like you guys had a great time! Makes me jealous!
For the person that was wondering if having rotors in the rear being a tad bit larger..
From an original article about the 1990 Toyota Celica AllTrac:
Brakes
F: ... 10.9 x 1.0-in vented disc
R: ... 11.3 x 0.4-in disc
So, it would appear from the factory, the original rotors in the rear were larger.. so I think 9mm smaller in the front is going to be Fine, Just Fine. :smokes:
From an original article about the 1990 Toyota Celica AllTrac:
Brakes
F: ... 10.9 x 1.0-in vented disc
R: ... 11.3 x 0.4-in disc
So, it would appear from the factory, the original rotors in the rear were larger.. so I think 9mm smaller in the front is going to be Fine, Just Fine. :smokes: