upgrading wta intercooler?

Q&A regarding engines, turbos, and intercoolers and power upgrades

Postby johndgt4 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:18 pm

...oh yeah, best add that the TTE cores have 1 row extra and also reinforcing braces inside to handle high boost pressures....prob over 20psi.

Don't get hung up on intake temps being as low as possible. I think complete combustion takes place at something like 30 degrees but don't quote me. You want it safe and repeatable. Det prevention can be addressed with WI etc.

Some people might pipe up mentioning that the Corolla WRC had a FMIC. This was more for packaging and reliability reasons than anything else.

John
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Postby Insanity-74 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:03 pm

johndgt4 wrote:Nial on the OC actually had a custom top mount WTA core made and has found that has had an effect on the overall temps due to a larger surface area available to the airflow but nothing really dramatic,esp for the time/cash involved


If you call an average drop in inlet temps from 50-70deg down to 25-35deg nothing dramatic, then I guess so. But yes the time involved and the cash spent was rather on the high side about £450-£500 in materials and 6 months to build it.....it also has a swirl pot in the system.


johndgt4 wrote:I don't think Nial is looking to put his WTA into production and it looks a bit agricultural too.


"Agriculteral"...cheeky git :x :D I prefer the term "Industrial" :lol: 8) and no I wont be putting it into production....mk2 might though, but I`m still designing it.

Combustion can take place at 30 deg yes, but you want to be able to control the combustion via the spark, not by the fuel self igniting....remember the air may be cold, but its going into a very hot environment...the colder the air the better, you dont want hot spots in the cylinder igniting the petrol before its supposed to.
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Postby darthripley » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:40 pm

John - thanks for taking the time to post all the great info.
I appreciate it & I'm sure others will who are deciding between FMIC & WTA :)
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Postby 6strngs » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:59 pm

just recieved my ST205 pump today. Should be anice upgrade compared to no circulation of the fluid at all!
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Postby Mafix » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:00 pm

i still stand by WTA for race cars and FMIC for street cars.
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Postby Insanity-74 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:11 pm

Mafix wrote:i still stand by WTA for race cars and FMIC for street cars.


I`d say the other way round......100% of world rally cars currently use FMIC`s
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Postby Mafix » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:38 pm

because of track length. wta would be a nice heater at the ranges they drive.
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Postby Insanity-74 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:31 pm

Mafix wrote:because of track length. wta would be a nice heater at the ranges they drive.


Agreed...for drag or sprint events...a charge cooler with ice is the only way to go.
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Postby built2run » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:23 am

i believe they run fmic because of simplicity of ATA and nothing more if that were so then when toyota was in wrc they would have ditched the WTA after the st165.
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Postby Insanity-74 » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:12 am

built2run wrote:i believe they run fmic because of simplicity of ATA and nothing more if that were so then when toyota was in wrc they would have ditched the WTA after the st165.


Its simpler, lighter and gives cooler inlet temps than a charge cooler. Alot of people have taken inlet temp readings both from FMIC and charge coolers and charge coolers come nowhere near FMIC when it comes to inlet temps, the only one that gets close is my home made charge cooler. and you cant think that what the TTE cars used as their charge coolers are what you get on the road going version...and if the charge coolers were that effective they would have not needed to add a water spray system.
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Postby built2run » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:20 am

dude, i had a big ass list of facts from a lot of different places that basically contradicted each other in both ATA and ATW setups but my dumb ass closed the page just b4 i was done :doh: :shoots:

long story short, there is one disadvantage to each and in a best of the best comparison... cooling and stamina reamain "too close to call"

ATA: reduced response
WTA: conciderably heavier

so i guess it comes down to prefference.
and yes most people do not have a properly set up WTA system and that is why its a lot more common to see the cooler intake temps for ATA.

i really expected to have a definate one or the other answer but like i said in a best of the best for both the choice is response or less weight and saying that the gains of either one will net you about the same and bothe for the same cost if both are done the best way possible....

the only real difference is having an icebox for the WTA but thats something that is a one shot deal; therefore it goes out the window for this topic
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Postby Dracov » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:50 am

In my mind, "best" comes down to the primary function of the vehicle and personal preference, in roughly equal servings. After those are decided...by all means make the best intercooler system you can, don't half-ass it or you'll just end up longing for the other option believing it is all around better.
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Postby Insanity-74 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:11 pm

Dracov wrote:In my mind, "best" comes down to the primary function of the vehicle and personal preference, in roughly equal servings. After those are decided...by all means make the best intercooler system you can, don't half-ass it or you'll just end up longing for the other option believing it is all around better.


Definately agree...do it half assed and you are wasting your time no matter which system you choose...personally I`d go fro a WTA charge cooler...Its my prefered system...despite my arguments for a FMIC system I dont like them at all..I hate all the ugly birds nest of pipework.
and the fact that I spend a large % of my time in rush hour traffic going nowhere means a FMIC wouldnt be doing much..

For interest, I`m developing a new mk2 charge cooler, based on the standard charge cooler (using its shell with new internals), which may go into a small production run...one or two may be made available to folks in the US.....as my development goes on I`ll keep posting up here....if production is successfull I`ll see who wants one and how much people would be willing to pay.
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Postby Gary ST165 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:20 pm

nial,

if your planning to cut up a ST205 unit, why not just do the job properly re route / position the inlet and outlet and mount the bloody thing away from major heat source / soak.


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ie >>> anywhere NOT on top of the cylinderhead / manifold area.

side feed ST215 inlet manifold, straight intake etc jobs a goodun














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Postby Insanity-74 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:54 pm

I was thinking that, but it invites a whole host of problems....not the least supporting the bugger...rerunning all the pipework, then I have to worry about relocating the battery, sorting out the airfilter location etc...I`ll look into it though as its a good idea..
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