WRC CT20b

deecee

New member
answer is #2 - steel shaft ct20b on WRC manifold.

Unless, the turbo has been replaced with a ceramic shaft unit sometime in its life. Car may have had blown turbo so they replaced it with a ceramic version. Does happen..
 

Simba

New member
gt4tified":1n768uy5 said:
The turbo in the pic definitely has the anti-lag system installed, so where does that stand now Simba?

It has the air injection pipes "installed" on the manifold for homologation purposes. If you remove the pipes, the holes are not drilled through the manifold to make that portion of the system functional. Moreover, the pipes are one very small part of the ALS system, and the only part of it which exists on a 205 WRC. There was never a functional ALS system installed on any production car by Toyota.

You've got a ceramic CT20b bolted to a 205 WRC manifold. It'll make ~300whp if you squeeze it, as I originally said. It has absolutely nothing to do with a rally car, and unfortunately you didn't get a "barn find" $5,000 turbo. You got a plain 'ol 20b on a manifold that is not fundamentally different from any other 205 manifold.

There was never a ceramic turbine shaft. Only the turbine wheel is ceramic.
 

deecee

New member
apologies.. i'm lazy in my thinking. I always think steel shaft / ceramic shaft for steel wheel / ceramic wheel and touch type stuff down.
 

gt4tified

New member
Simba":5unk0bvx said:
gt4tified":5unk0bvx said:
The turbo in the pic definitely has the anti-lag system installed, so where does that stand now Simba?

It has the air injection pipes "installed" on the manifold for homologation purposes. If you remove the pipes, the holes are not drilled through the manifold to make that portion of the system functional. Moreover, the pipes are one very small part of the ALS system, and the only part of it which exists on a 205 WRC. There was never a functional ALS system installed on any production car by Toyota.

You've got a ceramic CT20b bolted to a 205 WRC manifold. It'll make ~300whp if you squeeze it, as I originally said. It has absolutely nothing to do with a rally car, and unfortunately you didn't get a "barn find" $5,000 turbo. You got a plain 'ol 20b on a manifold that is not fundamentally different from any other 205 manifold.

There was never a ceramic turbine shaft. Only the turbine wheel is ceramic.

Thanks for the clarification on the first part. I contacted the seller and he said that the pics that he had sent were those of a ceramic CT20b which were sold to another board member. He has assured me that what I am going to receive is the st205 wrc steel turbine version.

I am not disappointed in any way, I am just very glad its not a ceramic one. I'll have pics when I get it in hand.

I'll be pushing the turbo to 20psi max, cuz my build is an inexpensive one to 300awhp/300 ft.lb.

The previous owner pushed the turbo to 21psi and dyno'd with a st203 (FWD) with a gen3 3sgte on a gen3 mr2 lsd gearbox, with a very simple mods including water/meth injection and dyno'd at 342hp/336ft.lb

Klue, thanks for the clarification buddy. Hope to see you soon.
 

built2run

New member
simba, isn't the ALS system just inactive in the wrc st205? i'm pretty sure there is a pin in the wrc's ecu that when gronded activates the ALS
 

Simba

New member
built2run":1gtl4a0o said:
simba, isn't the ALS system just inactive in the wrc st205? i'm pretty sure there is a pin in the wrc's ecu that when gronded activates the ALS

The only part of the system that exists is the bare manifold casting and the air injection pipes. The holes for the pipes are not drilled through on the production manifold. The pipes are the only part of the ALS system that exists on the production cars, and it's a tiny part of the whole system.

You'd also need the air pump, VSV assemblies and plumbing, ALS sub-harness, and the rally ECU, which is entirely different from the production street ECU.

None of the ECUs produced for street use have any ALS provision whatsoever.

Moreover, ALS is not a "ground it and it works" system. There are many levels of ALS which are used with different programs for different situations. E.g. the tarmac ALS program is the most aggressive, the winter/snow program the least, and so forth.

ALS has no place on a street car. You can fake it with timing tricks that most of the aftermarket EMS units can do, but true air injection anti-lag will destroy a steel turbine turbo inside of a thousand miles. That's why TTE went to very exotic materials to give the turbos any kind of life, and even then they only last a very short time.

You could roll your own ALS system using a 205 WRC manifold, and control it with a good EMS that has enough IO to run such a system (you need to monitor, and actuate many things), but you would in effect be starting from scratch so far as activation scenarios and logic go. You'd be where Toyota was in the early 80's, only without the million dollar R&D budget.

To make a functional air-injection system on a 205 WRC manifold, you'd need:

- CT26R (or other) inconel turbo, or a few dozen Garretts.

- Drilled manifold so the "pipes" can actually deliver air into the exhaust stream.

- VERY powerful air injection pump-- you could probably use something from an emissions system. Ferrari did this for a while on the 355 and 360.

- High temp exhaust/air VSVs. Again, Ferrari makes one. They're $400 each. You'd need four.

- An EMS with lots of IO, probably Motec or EFI Technologies.

- All sorts of VSVs, plumbing, and a stellar crapload of R&D time.

Expect to pay around $15k to build such a system, and on a street car, the only use of it would be to destroy turbochargers.
 

built2run

New member
Thats good to know, thanks for saving me some cash for the wrc ecu. how would I find the rally ecu ? and who is selling a wrc manifold ? my car is getting to the point where its going to end up being track only. if I can keep it under 95 db I can run antilag at a few events. one of my instructors did some work for a group n team and is willing to share some experience on a similar setup. I need to find the one who told me about the st205 ecu and tear him a new one. sorry 4 thread jacking
 

gt4tified

New member
Lol...not a problem. I was reading on with interest, and learning a thing or two from Simba.

Its funny though cuz I may have to sell back the turbo, but locally, cuz the shipping will be crazy for you all. Reason being I'm investigating a built engine locally which already has a Garrett .60 compressor/ .63A/R turbine with ext. wastegate already installed.
 

Simba

New member
built2run":w2qzuijb said:
how would I find the rally ecu ?

1) You wouldn't.

2) Even if you did, it would cost north of 5k, be extremely expensive to make work in any fashion with a production engine, and almost certainly destroy said production engine in short order.

A good EMS will do everything (and more) that a TTE ECU will do, for a fraction of the cost, and with software you can actually modify.
 

Overtriped

New member
Did a road test finally with no boost leaks. I'm assuming the waste gate flap is stuck on my downpipe, so it over boosts.
The turbo spools and fuel cut hits about a second or less on WOT. Telling me it's gonna make some Big torque right off of the idle! :evil:
 

MWP

New member
Simba":olhp53x2 said:
To make a functional air-injection system on a 205 WRC manifold, you'd need:
- CT26R (or other) inconel turbo, or a few dozen Garretts.
- Drilled manifold so the "pipes" can actually deliver air into the exhaust stream.
- VERY powerful air injection pump-- you could probably use something from an emissions system. Ferrari did this for a while on the 355 and 360.
- High temp exhaust/air VSVs. Again, Ferrari makes one. They're $400 each. You'd need four.
- An EMS with lots of IO, probably Motec or EFI Technologies.
- All sorts of VSVs, plumbing, and a stellar crapload of R&D time.
Expect to pay around $15k to build such a system, and on a street car, the only use of it would be to destroy turbochargers.

Its an old post, but since its been dragged up again...

Pretty much the only things right here are the first two points.
The 205 and Corolla WRC cars anti-lag systems are not complicated.
 

MWP

New member
No, its a really good way to destroy turbos... all that extra low down response and torque.
 
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