Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby dkpain » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:34 am

To lighten up the car to the point that its at, i think alot of that weight cam from the doors, and the seats. They weighed like 100 lbs a piece. Holly crap, I could barely lift the friggen driver seat out of it. If I remember correctly it had that bolster air bag in it. Really heavy. Threw in a kirkey race seat that I found on kijiji. not sure what style of seat but fits me like a glove. Had to modify it a little to get it centered in front of the wheel. Also to get me low enough to get my helmet on.
The motors in the doors were insanely heavy. Lost the mirrors and glass and everything. Then I made 5mm lexan windows. I bent them by using a tiger torch. You blow the heat down a stove pipe on the ground. Hold the lexan over it and bend till curved properly. (there was more to it than that but).
The menard tires didn't hold up that great. I have been nominated to take a place on the executive board for the ice race club so i will be pushing the ATV stud option for the club. If we reduce the stud count (to get the same grip as the menards) than we could use either or. but menards are just too expensive for how long they last. I could understand if they lasted maybe two seasons, but eight in one year. I dont know.
The aluminum skid plate is a excellent idea and I am going to do the same. Need protection there. Need to beef up the aluminum front bumper. I hit it hard into snow and it did nothing. But if i nail another car, the front, rad, intercooler rad, and other stuff are toast. lots of ideas. Anything you can or anyone can think of for ice racing should be posted here. The sport is unreal.

Question: 1
Exhaust. What should I do? I'm going to fab my own stainless one. I think 2.5 inch as I don't need 3 inch. But a good header and down pipe? What EXACTLY should I be getting.

Question: 2
Clutch and flywheel. Which? Not too crazy just something that'll be good for ice. I got a nissan technician who is a real race car enthusiast is gonna help me. I want to collect all the parts I need and get them here than schedule him in so.

Question: 3
Blowoff valve. Which and why? Is it really required? Ran all year without. Recirculate? or no? Remember. Not a street car. Recirculating seems to me isn't necessary. A little squirt of fuel in between shifts seems like maybe some insurance. Keeping things a little rich? Not a bad idea for a race car as I don't have to care about fuel economy.
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby dkpain » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:28 am

Had our club banquet last night. Rookie of the year. Studded class A winner. NAPA Studded series champion. And Thunder Bay Autosports Club overall Champion. Thank you alltrac. Next year hope to do it all again. Now just gotta find some sponsors. Especially tires.
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby Jason88AllTrac » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:14 pm

dkpain wrote:Had our club banquet last night. Rookie of the year. Studded class A winner. NAPA Studded series champion. And Thunder Bay Autosports Club overall Champion. Thank you alltrac. Next year hope to do it all again. Now just gotta find some sponsors. Especially tires.

Great job! Sure the car is a big part of it, but it takes a good nut behind the wheel to be a winner.

dkpain wrote:To lighten up the car to the point that its at, i think alot of that weight cam from the doors, and the seats. They weighed like 100 lbs a piece. Holly crap, I could barely lift the friggen driver seat out of it. If I remember correctly it had that bolster air bag in it. Really heavy. Threw in a kirkey race seat that I found on kijiji. not sure what style of seat but fits me like a glove. Had to modify it a little to get it centered in front of the wheel. Also to get me low enough to get my helmet on.
The motors in the doors were insanely heavy. Lost the mirrors and glass and everything. Then I made 5mm lexan windows. I bent them by using a tiger torch. You blow the heat down a stove pipe on the ground. Hold the lexan over it and bend till curved properly. (there was more to it than that but).
The menard tires didn't hold up that great. I have been nominated to take a place on the executive board for the ice race club so i will be pushing the ATV stud option for the club. If we reduce the stud count (to get the same grip as the menards) than we could use either or. but menards are just too expensive for how long they last. I could understand if they lasted maybe two seasons, but eight in one year. I dont know.
The aluminum skid plate is a excellent idea and I am going to do the same. Need protection there. Need to beef up the aluminum front bumper. I hit it hard into snow and it did nothing. But if i nail another car, the front, rad, intercooler rad, and other stuff are toast. lots of ideas. Anything you can or anyone can think of for ice racing should be posted here. The sport is unreal.


Everywhere I hear that weight is perhaps one of, if not the absolute biggest factor in a ice race car with limited traction. Bigger deal in rubber to ice, but the same thing applies in the stud limited/menard classes. I plan to prepare my blue 165 this summer for rallyx/ice in prepared class. Already have more of the stuff ready. I think that between gutting the interior, removing AC, single fiberglass racing seat, and an odyssey battery (relocated to hatch) I should be able to drop about 200lbs.

I would suggest your rules allow the use of regular sharpened bolts instead of studs. They are FAR less expensive, and untrue to popular belief they won't wear out when only used on ice.

Ice racing is a niche sport that very few people know about. It's perhaps the most fun I have ever had in a car and I've done plenty of other motorsports. Amazing that it's not very popular considering the "investment to fun ratio".

dkpain wrote:Question: 1
Exhaust. What should I do? I'm going to fab my own stainless one. I think 2.5 inch as I don't need 3 inch. But a good header and down pipe? What EXACTLY should I be getting.


I don't think anyone should be telling you exactly what to get, but I can make some recommendations. As you have a 185 you can use the SSAC downpipe, which is cheap as heck. Then build a midpipe that turns and exits out the side of the car by the door. No need to make it longer and heavier than it needs to be.

dkpain wrote:Question: 2
Clutch and flywheel. Which? Not too crazy just something that'll be good for ice. I got a nissan technician who is a real race car enthusiast is gonna help me. I want to collect all the parts I need and get them here than schedule him in so.


I would go with a standard aftermarkket clutch that still has good modulation, holding power and heat tolerance... IE a full-faced clutch disc. The stock flywheel is fine. I'm running a DXD stage 3 clutch, which is similar to a centerforce dual friction disc with organic lining on one side and sintered iron on the other. It can handle all the abuse I've thrown at it.

dkpain wrote:Question: 3
Blowoff valve. Which and why? Is it really required? Ran all year without. Recirculate? or no? Remember. Not a street car. Recirculating seems to me isn't necessary. A little squirt of fuel in between shifts seems like maybe some insurance. Keeping things a little rich? Not a bad idea for a race car as I don't have to care about fuel economy.


Not required unless you are increasing boost nad/or the piping volume (between compressor and TB) substantially. If anything, add a recirc valve. For venting to atmosphere the big downside which most people don't talk about is partial throttle acceleration, where the valve will vent and cause the engine to bog severely due to being very rich. You can learn to drive around it, but it's not ideal. Any dump valve will do to save your turbochargerm, but it will probably make boost response after shifts slightly faster as they do tend to surge slightly from the factory. There are literally hundreds of options..
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby dkpain » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:47 pm

thanks for the info. Should I keep the stock exhaust manifold or get a tubular? Will just the downpipe, flex and homemade mid pipe be all I need?
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby Jason88AllTrac » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:47 pm

dkpain wrote:thanks for the info. Should I keep the stock exhaust manifold or get a tubular? Will just the downpipe, flex and homemade mid pipe be all I need?


The stock manifold is fine. Don't worry about upgrading it. If you spend money anywhere, on a stock trac once intake/exhaust is done I personally would upgrade the ECU first. Then ditch the old CT26 turbocharger... then go for a quality intercooler.

If you don't mind the exhaust being loud, to a certain point shorter and bigger is better.
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby dkpain » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:32 am

Sweet info.
Shorter and bigger is better eh? So out the side behind the door would be best then. The rules state just behind the driver is allowed. Therefore I think just dump down directly behind driver seat would be shortest. that's what i did over the last season. You just have the door open in the lineup.
Do you have a good picture of how I should do the intake side? What exactly do i need for it? there's gotta be a thread on that I'll search it.
What about the clunk in the rear of the car when downshifting. Rear diff mount? I looked and nothing looked cracked or anything. I remember seeing something about welding a plate to everything back there to make it solid mounted.? Any good? at all? When I do the clutch should I get some weight shaved off the stock flywheel?
Also, what about gauges? what should I be thinking about for engine monitoring and management?
I could ask questions all day.
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Re: Ice Racing in Thunder Bay Autosports Club

Postby gt4tified » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:24 pm

Firstly, you had asked earlier on about keeping the stock heatshield. This helps in two ways. Firstly, the turbocharger works based on expelled hot gases, so keeping the heat in keeps your spool time down to as low as possible and keeps the turbo nice and warm as it should be. Second is that the heat shield does as the name implies, it shields the surrounding areas such as hood, intercooler and radiator from the immensely radiated heat.

I agree that for any sort of endurance/lap type race with an alltrac, upgrading the oil cooling system will be a very good idea, and its not an expensive mod, relatively speaking. I think you should also consider another turbo, perhaps a ct20b (circa $500 used) or a nice GT series like the disco potato or the GT2871R, once your budget allows. The CT20b is a bolt on upgrade though (hence why I like it) which requires nothing else to be changed.

As far as clutch goes, it depends on how much torque you are or will be putting down. I use an Exedy Stage 2 and it has never let me down...never! The stock flywheel cannot be lightened much; its better to go with an aftermarket lightweight flywheel.

For gauges, fluid temperatures (oil, water) are very important for what you are doing, as well as a pyrometer. After that, oil pressure and a wideband are good options.

These are all just my opinions, and others may say differently, so at the end of the day, do your research as you've been doing and make your choices based on that. It seems that you're already under proper advisement so that's good. Good luck with the rest of your races!
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