The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

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The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:16 am

First things first, there can be a large variety of ways to do this brake swap, i have thought of other methods beyond the one i used. And maybe further down the road i may choose to do it differently. Or someone may re-engineer my idea into a better one. Regardless my point is keep an open mind.

Secondly if you choose to do this swap, you are the one doing all the work, you are simply using the way i did it as a summarized method of a potential way of doing it. Therefore in case of failure, I AM NOT HELD RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. YOU CHOSE TO TAMPER WITH YOUR OPERATING(or in some cases non-operating) BRAKES, NOT I. THEREFORE I WILL NOT AND CAN NOT BE HEAD RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS. I state this only because brakes are really reallly REALLLLLY important on a vehicle and IF you do decide to do this, I STRONGLY recommend that you have complete confidence in what you are doing, as well as you test it out over and OVER ...and OVER again before you even THINK about take it out on a ROAD. Make sure that EVERYTHING is working the way it should. Again you choose to do this of your own free will, and therefore if anything is to happen it is on you(the reader of thread).

Thirdly I have written this in a way that will assume that the reader has previous knowledge of how the workings of their Toyota operates. I will not explain how to take off the knuckle or how to put it back on. Or how to bolt up the Brake Caliper, if you do not know how to do such please do not do this. But if there is ANYTHING confusing in my wording or if there is anything you guys want further pictures or explanations on then please let me know. And if my grammar or spelling lacks anywhere then let me know please.

With that disclaimer out of the way....

What you will need if you have a 1987-1989 Toyota Celica Alltrac(GT-Four) ST165:
If you have any other model/year of Celica, i leave it up to you to engineer it.
(as for the ST185, it is basically the same, with the exception of needing to buy ST185 discs, since you already have them...duh)
-Front Right and Left 09 Toyota Tacoma Brake Calipers:
Image
Image
-Front Left and Right ST185(1989-1993 Toyota Celica Alltrac) Brake Discs(rotors)
-New Brake lines(preferably SS...mostly cause it would be a good idea..just spend the 90 bucks):

Image
-2x Grade 8 1/2 inch diameter bolts 2 inches in length:
Image
-2x Grade 8 3/8 inch diameter bolts 2 inches in length:
-2x Grade 8 1/2 inch diameter hole Lock washer:
Image
-2x Grade 8 3/8 inch diameter hole Lock washer
-2x Grade 8 1/2 inch diameter hole Lock nylon nut
-2x Grade 8 3/8 inch diameter hole Lock nylon nut

-a dremel of some nature or a metal file, i would use a metal file just to make sure you do not take away TOO much material, it will take FOREVER, but it will be worth it in the end.
-1/2 inch drill bit and drill
-1/2 inch steel tube, the thicker the better, which gives you more to work with; get at least 6 inches of it; there will be a lot of trial and error of getting it perfect

-Potentially you will need wheel spaces DEPENDENT ON YOUR RIMS...THIS MUCH IS UP TO YOU TO DETERMINE IF NEEDED AND THE CORRECT SIZE FOR SUCH



SIDE NOTE:
This is why you need ST185 brake discs, picture below is the caliper mock mounted on ST165 discs:
Image



First thing to do is pull front Knuckles/Hubs off. If you do not know how to do this..STOP READING and do not do anything more please for your own sake.



Then Drill out the top hole for the stock brake calipers with 1/2 inch drill bit, example:
Image
I picked the top hole to drill because there is more material there to hold and keep it strong, the lower bolt hole has less, and therefore if I drill it out, it will become considerably weaker.



Then dremel or file away these edges on the knuckle, try and file it so that everything remains flush with the mount hole surface.
I refer to these edges:
Image
Image



SIDE NOTE
In the pictures you will note that the "dust shield" is not there, the knuckle/hub shown is merely an example of one, you will be able to retain your stock dust shield if desired.



Next you will dremel off the lifted flat surface and make it flush with rest that caliper edge highlighted in the picture below, due to the fact that it will make contact to the wheel spacer/rim dependent on your setup.
Image
Here is a none molested photo to assist:
Image
Image



Now that you have done that, Mock test your calipers on your knuckle/hub(NOT ON THE CAR) and make sure that the caliper does not make any contact to the rim and or spacer.
Again if you can not figure out how to mock test it right now with the correct bolts, please stop reading.
Image



You should also note that the nut and lock washer will be on CV axle side.



Alright now that you have mocked them up, you will see that the 1/2 inch bolt works perfectly and will hold tight.
Where as the 3/8th bolt will not be as behaved.
you will notice this gap:
Image
No need to panic. The 3/8th bolt will fit in there...but here comes the 'shitty' part. You will need to create threaded half moon shims to compensate for the space..this part took me hours upon hours with a metal file and a grinder just to get 4 good shims(2 per side, one to compensate for the gap in the caliper and the other for the knuckle). These shims which we put into the holes and then slide the bolt in and make sure to have NO PLAY what so ever...and yes really this takes forever to get them just right.
Examples of the shims:
Image
Image
I tapped mine just to make sure it compensated as much of the gap as possible.



I had about 2 pieces of this 6 inch long 1/2" diameter steel tubing and tapped the whole thing, filed and grinded and took centuries to get them right.
Image
As you can see below i took off too much material with the grinder, thus I suggest the metal file. When I used the file, I was able to get it perfect
Image



Now that you have your shims made to compensate the gaps around the 3/8th inch bolts, you can can attach the SS brake line. Make sure to use the COPPER o-rings, and I used the stock Toyota Celica COPPER banjo bolts, cause the ones supplied by Technafit lines were too long for these calipers as seen below(otherwise you will want to use extra copper o-rings).



Image
Note this is with the bolt all the way tightened, with out the copper o-rings, therefore if you were to have another copper o-ring it will be fine....BUT using the stock banjo bolts would be a better way of doing it.



The brake line should look like this but cleaner ;):
Image



All bolted up it will look like this:
Image
NOTE:
The bleeder valve has to be up top. use the picture as reference to what i mean.



Clearance:
Image
Image



Finished product:
Image
Image
Image



Thank you, and I hope this is helpful to many. Take care all!
And Please be careful when doing this mod and make sure you have complete confidence in the integrity of your design, and for the love of God, make sure all your bolts are tight and that there is NO play in anything!!
Use ONLY GRADE 8 BOLTS, LOCK NUTS AND WASHERS!!
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby Sifu » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:25 am

Nice write up. How's it compare to stock?
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby alltracshoak » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:41 am

Sifu wrote:Nice write up. How's it compare to stock?


+1
current:
90 st185
GT4 AWD
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rip: 92 st185 @ 178k :(
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:18 am

I can only think of one word for it. And that is: phenomenal.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby MWP » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:29 pm

Are these cast iron or alloy calipers?
What model Tacoma are they from (ie, model number)?

Gotta say though, that it looks like one dodgy as hell way to mount it up like that using the smaller bolt and shim.
Not something i would be doing with an item as critical as brakes.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:55 pm

MWP wrote:Are these cast iron or alloy calipers?
What model Tacoma are they from (ie, model number)?

Alloy.
Model number....all i know is what is provided on the tags that came with them:
Image

MWP wrote:Gotta say though, that it looks like one dodgy as hell way to mount it up like that using the smaller bolt and shim.
Not something i would be doing with an item as critical as brakes.

It certainly is no disagreement from me, hence my disclaimer. But with that being said, i have had these on my trac for three months now, there is no play in them what so ever. What i would suggest though as an alternate and safe method of doing it(got the idea from Lamont when we were talking about this) is have someone weld fill up the lower bolt hole on the caliper and drill it out to proper bolt hole length to the knuckle. There are a few other ways of doing this modification, but the weld fill would be the most logical and most safe method imo. Not to discredit my original idea, for it has held up to over 3-4K miles and counting(drove to STPR and then to vermont and back, on top of my 35 mile one way commute to work, the miles have added up fast on it). It has been in stop and go traffic, high way traffic, back road fun, dirt road fun, and various hard braking to zero just for testing purposes. Thus my point is, if you get it right and take the time it will work fine(even though its not the BEST idea).
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby MWP » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:52 pm

Well said :)
Considering the smaller bolt, i would be using a higher grade bolt than 8 though, like a 12.9.

These calipers are used on the 07 and newer Tacoma it seems.
Toyota part number for the full calipers are 47730-04092 and 47750-04092.

Doesnt look like they came to Australia at all.
Oh well, ill just have to keep looking at Willwood options ;)
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby fhalperformance » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:07 pm

Why not try something like a 3/8 threaded bolt with a 1/2 inch shoulder instead of the shims?

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?c ... 25&cd=1799
click on US Shoulder Bolt dimension table to see how its explained
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:54 pm

MWP wrote:Well said :)
Considering the smaller bolt, i would be using a higher grade bolt than 8 though, like a 12.9.

These calipers are used on the 07 and newer Tacoma it seems.
Toyota part number for the full calipers are 47730-04092 and 47750-04092.

Doesnt look like they came to Australia at all.
Oh well, ill just have to keep looking at Willwood options ;)


Grade 8 of my knowledge is the highest grade i can get, granted i just used non metric thread , SAE, thread, iirc right the grading between the metric and SAE is different.

and from doing a quick googling:
http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts/SA ... ength.html

Grade 8 is the largest. (from a quick googling)
21300 pounds is alot of force to fubar it....alotl

Thank you for the part numbers, it will help me and others in the future. Thank you. :)

Wilwood was something i was looking at in the past, but money is the issue for me, so these were the best bang for the buck, while to maintaining what i believe to be safe(enough).

fhalperformance wrote:Why not try something like a 3/8 threaded bolt with a 1/2 inch shoulder instead of the shims?

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?c ... 25&cd=1799
click on US Shoulder Bolt dimension table to see how its explained



To be honest, i didnt even think about such, and really... Thank you...i am going to pull the calipers in about 2K more miles and take a look at how everything is holding up, and i will Likly go that route. that is a good idea man, thank you.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby fhalperformance » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:34 am

I was ready to write a response without that link and was like, maybe I should be sure they make something similar already. Youd have to measure for the correct lengths you need but you can very easily have the correct bolt ordered if its not readily available for only a couple of bucks from a hardware shop. If you cant find anything after you get your measurements let me know and Ill see what I can do.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby Pechin0351 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:21 pm

Did the mounting bolts ever get changed from using the "shims" to bolts that neck down? Or are there any updates/reports ?
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:43 pm

updates, no.
reports, still operational, but bare in mind red car has been moody motor wise thus not really too active.
and my focus of late has been more of career focus than my hobby(cars) :doh:
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby UtahSleeper » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:57 pm

LegacyofDan wrote:updates, no.
reports, still operational, but bare in mind red car has been moody motor wise thus not really too active.
and my focus of late has been more of career focus than my hobby(cars) :doh:


Easily understood.

Great write up.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby wakkjobb » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:23 am

Hm... I know a guy with a pair of those calipers. Oughta pay him a visit; I guess the stock 14" wheels won't come close to fitting over those calipers though.
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Re: The long awaited 4-pot Tacoma Front brake How-To

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:33 am

not at all. 14=tooo small
and over time and further experimentation i learned that there was not enough rotor area and it would just heat up over time, and keep that heat, granted it would take a while to heat up but, the size of the rotors were it's largest down side.
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