Engine + trans weights: 2zzge vs. 3sgte

[concealer404]

Simple question:

Anyone know what the weight difference is between the two, fully dressed?

[2of81]

AWD or 2WD?

[WarTowels]

^Haha, good question.

I looked this up at one point, I recall the 3S being a decent amount heavier (obviously).

-Towels

[concealer404]

Sorry, FWD.

So... 3sgte + E153

2zzge + C52 or whatever that trans is.

I'm guessing it's around 200lbs lighter. Fully dressed no fluids 2zzge seems to be about 250lbs if you believe various places on the internet. Found a shipping weight for a 3sgte + trans @ 450lbs elsewhere.

I had an idea for my car, then realized a 2zz swap would make more sense in an "AT180" car than an ST184.


Still curious, though. Kindof have a hankering for a 2zz/6spd 92-93 Celica ST daily driver.

[CMS-GT4]

From a handling perspective I would go with the 2zz engine. That setup will save you a bit of weight. From a power standpoint I would go 3s.

Had I more time and space I would had likely done a boosted tc engine swap over the 205 to save weight.

[concealer404]

From a handling perspective I would go with the 2zz engine. That setup will save you a bit of weight. From a power standpoint I would go 3s.

Had I more time and space I would had likely done a boosted tc engine swap over the 205 to save weight.

I remember that discussion a few years back...

The car will be used for Time Trials/Hillclimbs eventually, so i need a balance of the two. I think for this particular one, the 3sgte makes a bit more sense, since it is the heavier GT and is an ST-chassis. And if i run into limitations with the chassis, finding an AllTrac or MR2 to dump the motor into wouldn't be horribly hard.

If i had an ST Coupe, the choice would be easy.

But on the flip side... 200-250whp n/a and 2100lbs sounds like a car i'm already building anyways, so it'd be a bit redundant. Arg.


What about... turbo 2zz? I'm "only" looking for 350-400whp.

[CMS-GT4]

I would go check out the newcelica forums just to see the costs involved in building the 2zz engine. It can make some power, but if you have to spend a few grand to make that much power than its not worth it. Same problem with my Z. Making lots of power NA is too expensive vs boosting. You spend twice as much for less power.

[concealer404]

I would go check out the newcelica forums just to see the costs involved in building the 2zz engine. It can make some power, but if you have to spend a few grand to make that much power than its not worth it. Same problem with my Z. Making lots of power NA is too expensive vs boosting. You spend twice as much for less power.

I bet it'd just be a matter of rods/pistons, throw a turbo at it. (Yes, that's grossly simplifying things.)

My 3sgte would be a ground up build anyways. Doubt cost would be much different.

The only real "unknown" is cost to actually swap a 2zz and C-series trans into an ST chassis, and whether or not i'd be constantly shredding the C60.

[WarTowels]

What about a Beams? Lighter than the 3s, heavier than the 2zz.

The 2zzge I've spent the most time in has a pretty weak sauce tranny...

-Towels

[concealer404]

What about a Beams? Lighter than the 3s, heavier than the 2zz.

The 2zzge I've spent the most time in has a pretty weak sauce tranny...

-Towels

The BEAMS is really only lighter due to lack of turbo hardware and the S5x trans it has. Easier swap, but more expensive to make the same power n/a as 2zz, and poses no real advantage if shooting for 400whp. Very high "awesome" factor, though.

I do have a gen2 3sgte and a complete 5sfe that i was planning on making a stroker with. I have a TRD FWD E153 LSD, just need the transmission. Also have a BW T4 that i was/am planning to put on that motor.

The trans issues on the C60 are mainly due to shift forks. Later revisions were better about that.

I gotta wonder how much of a pain it would be to put a 2zz in an ST-chassis. I'm told 3 of the 4 mounts would line up in an AT-chassis.


I REALLY like the idea of a 2100lb 2zz powered 5th gen, but i somewhat doubt it would be all that competitive, though i really don't know WHAT is competitive yet anyways. Been focusing on SCCA SMF Solo class at the moment, so my goal isn't much more formulated for the Celica beyond "I want to do Time Trials and Hillclimb."

[CMS-GT4]

I could have sworn a gts stripped down of its interior and extras was under 2,300lbs. I forget the exact weight but a guy on ctech stripped on and got the weights. The 7th gen can get around 1,900lbs from what I read.

[concealer404]

I could have sworn a gts stripped down of its interior and extras was under 2,300lbs. I forget the exact weight but a guy on ctech stripped on and got the weights. The 7th gen can get around 1,900lbs from what I read.

I remember that thread as well. Figure another 100lbs lost for the 2zz and i suppose i could get my car to 2200. I would have to assume an ST could get lighter since it's a coupe, but it might not be much difference. I'm shooting for 2300lbs out of my car with the 3sgte + E153.

I'm not sure i could see a 7th gen that light, but it's possible. Probably won't go out and buy one, though, i like my 5th gens.

[WarTowels]

More expensive to make the same power? It makes more power.

Do you mean the initial cost? I think they are comparably priced (without a tranny).

Anyway, 3sgte ftw.

-Towels

[concealer404]

More expensive to make the same power? It makes more power.

Do you mean the initial cost? I think they are comparably priced (without a tranny).

Anyway, 3sgte ftw.

-Towels

Sorry, i worded that badly. If i were to stay n/a, i'd be looking for ~250whp. 2zzge will get there cheaper, there isn't much out there for BEAMS. Probably be cheaper to start with a normal 3rd gen 3sge if i wanted to build an n/a 3s of some sort. And then it'd still weigh more.

If boosting, the BEAMS poses no real advantage over either of the other two options.


3sgte is where i'll continue now that i've talked it out, but this damn thing isn't gonna be cheap.

[WarTowels]

I don't think it's a cheap affair to get the 2zz to 250whp. I only pay attention to the mr2 world, but highest I've seen is in the low 200's and that required a lot of bells and whistles. More bang for your buck in the 3S, but yeah, heavier.

-Towels