Final Drive upgrades

Lets talk clutches and everything drivetrain related

Postby CMS-GT4 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:10 am

Not really. I have not heard of any parts delivered and tested yet. Once I hear more info, I will post and update.
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Postby alltrac101 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:15 am

CMS-GT4 wrote:He is offering a gearset too, when there is enough interest.

Prochorus familiaris wrote:The 1st question:

Now we are on decision - to make or not to make?

The talk is about close ratio gears, for our cars (GT4) it's produced only by C-One in Japan, look it here:

http://www.c-one.co.jp/C-ONEPARTS/close_mission.html

Their price is 2800$ ExWorks, with airdelivery it will be up to 3500$ because of "nice" weight of the parcel.

We can do make the stuff like this, even upgraded, i.e. little bit more nicely selected ratios, more stronger steel, more tough treatment of the material, etc.
We have some tech claims to C-One stuff, because we have in our team (consists of 1 ST185 & 4 ST205 for rally + 3 ST205 for writing the verbatim before the rally) in competition with dog-gang gearboxes, and C-One sometimes give us the problems of damage & in some sense we aren't pleased with ratios selected, so there is a space for improvement & upgrade.

Our project price will be 1800$, i.e. minus 1K$ at least. May be even more cheaper, it's hard to say before production start.
Also our delivery will be much cheaper, because it based on lower tariffs.

Now we are on the decision point - to make or not to make?
We don't want to make it & then to put it on the shelf as in museum.

SO - Do you think it could be interesting for you?
Please input your IMHO. For us to estimate the demand.

Any questions are welcome.


Josh
Can you pm me his info, I'm looking for a dog set for my now destroyed 205 tranny I just took out, most likely it will be the RC ratio & final

Pat
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Postby ST185pinjo » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:42 pm

Pat, be carefull with this man.

He was on the GT4dc forum. Talking about making everything better than the big brands for about half the price.

I don't know if people there bought stuff off of him and send him money, but he is now where to be found.

Was looking for some info for you, but I see you are registered. :wink:
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Postby alltrac101 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:46 am

ST185pinjo wrote:Pat, be carefull with this man.

He was on the GT4dc forum. Talking about making everything better than the big brands for about half the price.

I don't know if people there bought stuff off of him and send him money, but he is now where to be found.

Was looking for some info for you, but I see you are registered. :wink:


Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to visit you guys over there more often

Pat
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby DudeMan » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:53 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote: Alltracs might get much more out of their ct26, ct20 or ct27 with a lower final drive.


I'm confused.. Wouldn't a lower final drive hurt performance?

Isn't this why people are dropping the 4.285 FD into RC transmissions?

Not saying your wrong or anything.. Just some conflicting info here..
-Chase

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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:37 pm

4.2 is a lower final drive than the rc's 3.9 final.
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby DudeMan » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:51 pm

Ah, I was thinking higher number = higher FD.. My bad.

How hard is it to swap the final drive on our trannies?

I know you need to swap the output shaft, ring gear and oil pump gear but I've never cracked a tranny open before so I'm not sure. Does the whole thing have to come apart?

Anything else have to be replaced while doing this like bearings or synchros?
-Chase

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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby st185-sainz » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:41 am

I just made a traction diagram of the CS ratios josh wrote in one of the first posts. Maybe someone is interested in...
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby Redrkt01 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:51 pm

I'd like to point out that USDM ST165/ST185 trannies came equipped with 3.933 FDs. The only Celica models in North America with a 4.285 are swaps with JDM or Euro trannys. So for most guys, swapping to a 4.285 unit or an aftermarket unit is all the more important. Just make sure you understand you that will affect your gas mileage.
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby Redrkt01 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:53 pm

DudeMan wrote:Ah, I was thinking higher number = higher FD.. My bad.

How hard is it to swap the final drive on our trannies?

I know you need to swap the output shaft, ring gear and oil pump gear but I've never cracked a tranny open before so I'm not sure. Does the whole thing have to come apart?

Anything else have to be replaced while doing this like bearings or synchros?


Swap out whatever needs fixing. Got bad gears or synchros? Do it now because you'll have to tear apart to the whole box to get to the diff.
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby CMS-GT4 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:05 pm

Redrkt01 wrote:I'd like to point out that USDM ST165/ST185 trannies came equipped with 3.933 FDs. The only Celica models in North America with a 4.285 are swaps with JDM or Euro trannys. So for most guys, swapping to a 4.285 unit or an aftermarket unit is all the more important. Just make sure you understand you that will affect your gas mileage.


This is not correct. EVERY alltrac/gtfour came with the 4.285 with exception to RC, Carlos Sainz, Group A wich came with the 3.933 final drive. You can verify this by checking the part numbers via the EPC or toyodiy database, or the russian EPC. Japanese final drives verified via celica hyper rev, but also by the sources listed above.
All gear ratios for all models have been posted in the faq.

I have an RC gearbox in my car, and the 4th and 5th gears are without a doubt higher than what was in my alltrac.

There was a lot of mixed info about this back in the day on the forums and web, so I spent a lot of time gathering the correct data for our faq.
The only gearbox ratios that has not be confirmed by toyota sources is the japanese only rally edition close rato box. I may have a file somewhere with its part numbers, but I need to dig it up.
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby Redrkt01 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:58 pm

Josh, I don't know about the EPCs but I do know that toyodiy can't be relied upon since there are all kinds of holes in their database. I use it for reference only.

The best way to go about determining what you have is 1) check your BGB. My 1989 Celica BGB says the E50F1 comes with a 3.933 and 2) check your speedo ring color through the speedo hole in the case. If it is whitish/yellowish it is a 3.933. If it is blue it is a 4.285. 3) if you have your tranny open you can count the teeth on the ring gear and pinion gear. It will either be 60/14 or 59/15.

Just curious, where did you see that all the export (non-JDM) FDs were the same as the JDM 4.285s?
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby phattyduck » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:12 pm

I must be the only one that wants the 3.625:1 final drive out of the '92-'94 V6 MT Camry trans, eh?

-Charlie
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby Redrkt01 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:25 pm

phattyduck wrote:I must be the only one that wants the 3.625:1 final drive out of the '92-'94 V6 MT Camry trans, eh?

-Charlie


Is that the E53....I've noticed that strange FD before. It would me great for DD gas mileage, but if you want it sporty you'd have to swap the gearing.
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Re: Final Drive upgrades

Postby phattyduck » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:43 pm

Redrkt01 wrote:
phattyduck wrote:I must be the only one that wants the 3.625:1 final drive out of the '92-'94 V6 MT Camry trans, eh?

-Charlie


Is that the E53....I've noticed that strange FD before. It would me great for DD gas mileage, but if you want it sporty you'd have to swap the gearing.
It is an E-series trans, but I don't know the specific number. E53 sounds right, as the earlier Camry V6 MT ('89-'91) is an E52. The MR2 guys use the gears from it and throw out the final drive. You can put together a good autocross trans that way. For some reason, Toyota put numerically high 1-5 gears in it and the numerically low final drive. It evens out to be similar to a normal E-series trans gearing.

-Charlie
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