How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

gtfourmansd":19yt1gos said:

Thats why i brought up DSMs if you go to their forums they all swear like they have some of the fastest cars available even if it costs about the same to get into the 10s and 11s as i would think it would any turbo car from the 90s.

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That's cause they're full of it. Kinda like 9/10 Subaru STi owners with an intake, exhaust and Cobb Access Port thinks they have the fastest car on earth.

You haven't stated a budget of any kind so it's hard to tell what you'll be okay with, I can tell you what I've spent on my car thus far but I've mostly done suspension/braking work and repairs so I really can't provide much insite into the costs of power mods. I can tell you though that the basic cost of the parts needed for any car are going to be about the same, pistons/rods/fuel pumps/turbos/clutches/cams/coilovers/standalones/etc are all damn near the same price for any car.

gtfourmansd":2im42tli said:

Is the st 185 capable of the same things as a 2gb gsx for about the same if not a slightly larger amount of money when it comes to mods? If it is what is the problem? I dont consider that slow at all. Oh and reasonably i am happy with 350 to 400 whp especially when the car itself looks good.

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I'd say it is just as capable, if not a better built motor from the factory (speaking of the 3SGTE). The big difference between these two communities imho is:

1. The DSM community is much larger. More parts available/More tuners messing with the platform. More examples at the track and on the road. All Trac is the opposite. Smaller community/Less tuners, less competition= Less results. How many All Tracs do we have in the 12s-11s? Not many. DSMs plenty.

However, I do agree with overall prices/money spent on mods to be about the same. Turbos cost the same, EMS, Fuel Systems, Cams, internals cost about the same. Sourcing tuners to put it all together and make things work is where the DSM communitiy has the edge.

I for one don't believe the 3SGTEs cost a fortune to make fast (speaking of 350-400 hp). Anything in the 650+ whp will cost some money.

I think one thing people overlook is the amount of posers in a community. Here we have very few whereas in other communities I am certain that the poser number is way higher. Anyone can claim to have an 11-10 second quarter mile beast and when the production numbers of the vehicle in question is 10 to 1 compared to how few alltrac/GT Fours where produced our poser population is way smaller. I for one don't think the hp number is the only thing that makes a fast car. I think one of the fastest vehicles can have relatively small overall hp like the MX5 FR-S & BRZ, all around 200hp, but make up for it in power to weight ratio and most importantly handling. No since in having a 700hp car when the usable horsepower number is way lower. I can spend 15K building a motor to go in a car that handles like a pig and then another 15K trying to beef up a chassis that can make this power usable. Or I can spend a few thousand making a car that handles great and then a few more thousand increasing the hp until I find a balance of hp and handling that makes a car fun to drive. Not only fast in a straight line, but fast around and through a corner which to me makes the balance the most important thing. Don't believe me look at the Porsche 911 never has it had the most hp as far as sports cars go, but find me a car that does everything better or faster and I bet its a purpose built race car that costs several times the amount of a production 911. Just my .02

I think my number one fear is getting into a platform with no options to make any power. I remember back when i had my 6th gen celica and i was just learning about cars the only options were to either swap in a 3s which seemed like an impossible task with my knowledge and the fact that i live in CA. Or build your own turbo kit which was also a crappy option.

If you're worried about swapping a 3S then I don't think you'd be able to push any platform much past stock unless you don't mind paying a shop to do the work, or if you're willing to push outside of your comfort zone. In the end it's all just nuts and bolts with a bit of wire here and there, a 5SFE doesn't have a lot of aftermarket support but the 3SGTE does, if you're worried about power there are members here making 1000AWHP+

underscore":3g9cgwpb said:

If you're worried about swapping a 3S then I don't think you'd be able to push any platform much past stock unless you don't mind paying a shop to do the work, or if you're willing to push outside of your comfort zone. In the end it's all just nuts and bolts with a bit of wire here and there, a 5SFE doesn't have a lot of aftermarket support but the 3SGTE does, if you're worried about power there are members here making 1000AWHP+

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I was talking about when i was first starting out. That was 8 years ago. Since then i have owned 3 turbo charged cars and have learned alot about what i want from a car and what it takes to make that happen. For instance I never go into gigantic builds because of the smog laws out here. I dont have connections for the non legal kind of smogs so ive never bothered. If it is something i really want and i just cant do it myself i have no problem paying a shop for it that is one of the perks of not having a car payment to begin with i can collect money for something like that. But if its something i have the room to do and the tools to do it with i enjoy taking a weekend to do it.

It just so happens I owned a 2g Talon TSI AWD and 2.0 WRX before the Alltrac. I can honestly say they all cost equally as much to make fast. The only reason the Alltrac is costing slightly more is because of the added insurance going into the build. Also, all three are pretty close in weight, 3100-3200 lbs. The Alltrac may have been heavy for it's time, but not by today's standards.

The Talon needed a engine swap before I was safely making over 300 awhp. It was a year of nonstop modding and maintenance before it got totaled. Lot of money in a short period of time with not much return. Lets say it was a learning experience.

The WRX spun a rod bearing at around 280awhp...like they all do. It took a STI shortblock swap (cheaper than rebuild)to reliably make over 300awhp with the stock STI turbo. This was my daily driver for 7 years, and it was well taken care of. 3 weeks after I sold it, the new owner destroyed 2nd gear. It's well known that the 02 tranny couldn't handle much torque.

The Evo 8/9 is a beast. All you need is fuel, injectors, turbo kit and remap (stock ECU) as bare minimum to make 500-600 awhp. Bigger radiator/FMIC, braided lines make it more reliable. That's so easy that fast Evos are a dime a dozen. But if you make more than 500 ft lbs before 5000 rpms, your tranny's done.

Point is, pick your platform, read up on it, learn what you can and can't deal with, and go from there. When you get the car where you want it to be, it should be well worth it.

What does an Evo 8/9 cost though?

10x what i paid for the alltrac!

Yeah I just looked at a few in my area, it'd be over double what I currently have into my car to get a stock one.