600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

knowitalls

New member
I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?
 

yota 3.0

New member
45740289_zpsa1afcec1.jpg
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
knowitalls":ucxumtwp said:
I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?

I think so. Why wouldn't you want to go standalone though? Power wise, it may be the most work, but gives you the most options for the future. Plus it removes the damn MAF! lol, hate that thing.

I think 300 is attainable on the stock electronics, but not sure.

Personally, I would evaluate how much work you want to put into it early.

I would start with the standards. Exhaust, straight intake with a good filter. Maybe the 3sge manifold and a front mount.

Plus, besides engine maintenance, I would address all driving maintenance first. Going fast will only destroy old parts faster lol.
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
ALLensTRAC":khjmfryg said:
UtahSleeper":khjmfryg said:
yota 3.0":khjmfryg said:
I have a 97 supra with 863rwhp and a 91 Alltrac with 600awhp and trust me when I say the amount of money you will spend trying to go Supra hunting is going to be a lot! you are better off just buying a supra.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been able to bang gears in my alltrac and not feel like im going to break everything. my supra on the other hand will take a beating all day!


just my opinion from owning both cars. Ditch the 3s awd setup and 1/2jz rwd convert it with a v160 or th400 trans, depends if u want 6spd or auto

let me know if you have any questions,
James

Please dont covert an alltrac lol. They are getting rarer with each accident and rice turn to scrap lol.

But the proper question, as just asked, is what are the bigger plans for this car? Is it your DD?

With all the ST165's being parted and basically rotting in place why not build one into a purpose built drag car? :shrug:
It would be awesome with the IRS out of a Supra/SC300 with a LSD and a 2j swap. I am 100% an Alltrac fanatic but it would be fun to build one for the purpose of beating on our big brother. Once my Trac is finished I plan to build a RWD 165 to compete in FL2K. Hell no one gives the guy in Australia with the TT1UZ crap for converting his 185. It will push the boundaries of our chassis and even give it some more exposure if seen drifting or beating on a Supra at the drag strip. Just my 2 cents :twisted:

I would do that on one that's been wrecked or has major rust issues, but I couldn't do it to a salvageable car. Like the shell remains of a part out would be a great candidate for a RWD conversion.
 

Sifu

New member
Build your Alltrac with over $10,000 worth of upgrades, get super sticky tires and stage next to him. Pray that your AWD can launch off the line faster and hope he doesn't hook up. Laugh and gloat and retire because once he has gotten his launch and shift points in then you would be MUCH better off buying something that is more comparable to his vehicle and beating him in that.
There is no replacement for displacement. The amount of money dumped into making a 3sgte a reliable, high HP engine gets ridiculous whereas for the 2jz it just laughs and wants more.
My Money Pit has been amassing a good deal of power parts and I am just looking at 600hp for a goal. It isn't cheap or easy.
 

GT4times2

Moderator
CSAlltrac":yc77zzc2 said:
GT4times2":yc77zzc2 said:
CSAlltrac":yc77zzc2 said:
The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.


Not speaking of speed, are you? A healthy ST165 with little mods will go over 150mph, very close to 160mph. I know. :wink:
Ummmm, it was a quote referance from a movie. The OP is far from a serious poster so I saw a far from serious response fitting. :shrug:

LOL. My bad. 8)

I wouldn't say he is not a serious poster. Maybe young and needs guidance. What we're here for.
 

GT4times2

Moderator
knowitalls":3u1g0tkx said:
I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?

For an All Trac, I think it's probably one of the best things to get. You can get a good unit for under a grand, that will remove the AFM, control boost etc. And for what you need, I doubt you'd have to upgrade it once you have it. Most units are light years ahead of the factory ECU, and should control whatever you throw at it.

To shut some skeptics, post pics of your car, along with what it has etc. What's your budget for mods btw? You never mentioned a budget, and when you get into a project, you must have a budget, that I'm sure you'll exceed. It always happens.

Good Luck.Take it a step at a time.
 

psipwrd

Member
knowitalls":21zxj7ff said:
I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?

300 seems common and doable, push the envelope a little. Shoot for 400 and be satisfied (even if temporarily) with a little less...

Sifu":21zxj7ff said:
Build your Alltrac with over $10,000 worth of upgrades, get super sticky tires and stage next to him. Pray that your AWD can launch off the line faster and hope he doesn't hook up. Laugh and gloat and retire because once he has gotten his launch and shift points in then you would be MUCH better off buying something that is more comparable to his vehicle and beating him in that.
There is no replacement for displacement. The amount of money dumped into making a 3sgte a reliable, high HP engine gets ridiculous whereas for the 2jz it just laughs and wants more.
My Money Pit has been amassing a good deal of power parts and I am just looking at 600hp for a goal. It isn't cheap or easy.

I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.

+1 for the cobalt ss/sc twincharge route, i'd love to see that!
 

yota 3.0

New member
psipwrd":1kehkm76 said:
I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.

I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

OP - your new goal of 3-400hp is a lot more realistic. Good luck :)

~James
 

Sifu

New member
yota 3.0":1nvilxaa said:
psipwrd":1nvilxaa said:
I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.

I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

OP - your new goal of 3-400hp is a lot more realistic. Good luck :)

~James
I'm just implying that if he wants to beat an 800hp Supra then he will need to drop serious coin for his to get built by a proper shop in a short amount of time and would be to his advantage to legally drag race early hoping his opponent makes the key mistakes.
 

C-dubb

New member
Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things. Also, a wideband to watch your AFR's so you don't toast your internals. They say 14.7:1 at Idle and round 11:1 in boost. I've gotten rid of a lot of the issues I was having with the factory EMS. Things like your computer going in to safe mode and retarding timing when it even suspects knock, will drive you nuts. Also, get rid of that stupid f'ing AFM. Speed density is much easier to make power on. I use an AEM EMS It's Pnp and it took minimal work to install. Fuel is a big issue too..I tried to milk supra TT 550cc injectors and it wasn't worth it. I'd say upgrade to at least 800cc injectors for 300whp for safe AFR's Probably best to save money ahead of time and upgrade to top feed rail and injectors and a adjustable FPR.

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.

Like they're saying, I don't think it's a good Idea to build an alltrac to battle with supra's and It's gonna take a lot of money and work to get to the power level you want so just be prepared for that.

I wish you luck and would love to see yet another all-trac making good power!!!!! Happy wrenching.

Just my $.02

P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.
 

lumbercis

Moderator
yota 3.0":3nhrwoib said:
psipwrd":3nhrwoib said:
I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.

I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

~James

I agree.. I think the only place an AWD setup would be an advantage vs a properly setup Supra or other RWD car is on the street where the surface itself and the kind of tires you can run will limit traction. On a track, a RWD car with slicks or sticky DRs will have the advantage and not have to deal with AWD drivetrain loss.
 

Mafix

New member
drag racing a supra? you WILL lose. end of story. the supra can have 300hp and even if you had the same hp, you would lose
 

GT4_DRED

New member
Mafix":f671ntez said:
drag racing a supra? you WILL lose. end of story. the supra can have 300hp and even if you had the same hp, you would lose
I agree.. Now, on a roll to up top, its a totally different story :shoots:
 

knowitalls

New member
Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things.

Yes, maybe an EMS is the way to go. Power FC or AEM? Also, if AEM, will any stand alone AEM work with our cars? Or do I have to get a specific model?

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.

I have turbo back exhaust, fmic, K&N filter, evc, walbro fuel pump, st185 turbo with a 16g compressor wheel, evc, and a tubular exhaust manifold.



P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.

What model AEM comes with that! Wow that sounds fun! Thats what I want! I wonder if Power FC has that option.
 

C-dubb

New member
knowitalls":14h2ndg7 said:
Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things.

Yes, maybe an EMS is the way to go. Power FC or AEM? Also, if AEM, will any stand alone AEM work with our cars? Or do I have to get a specific model?

Its a model specific to your application. I have an AEM 1120 I believe. I will check the part number when I get home. But its an earlier model. I think they still make it.

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.

I have turbo back exhaust, fmic, K&N filter, evc, walbro fuel pump, st185 turbo with a 16g compressor wheel, evc, and a tubular exhaust manifold.

That's a good start. How does the car run with all that? Had any problems with sage mode timing retard?


P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.

What model AEM comes with that! Wow that sounds fun! Thats what I want! I wonder if Power FC has that option.

Mine has it and its an earlier version. So I'm sure the newer ones do. You can download the aem software for free on the forum and look at what it has to offer. Its under rev-limiters in the program. Some call it anti lag, two step, whatever have you. Unless they both have secret meanings separate from eachother that I don't know about.
 

GT4times2

Moderator
If you want an AEM at this point, go with the AEM EMS-4. It has many features the Ver. 2 has, plus it costs less. Then you get the benefit of building yourself a new harness (I would not trust a 20+ yr old brittle harness in a turbo car at this point). Might as well start from scratch (Or pay someone with the skills to do it).

You'll be glad you went that route. It frees up space, you can have a neat engine bay and if done properly, a more reliable system (no electrical gremlins to sort out).

You have some options:

AEM EMS-4, the DIY Auto Tune (MegaSquirt), Haltech, Microtech, EMS Stinger to name a few. All well under $1K. You can't go wrong with either.

The Apexi Power FC is harder to come by, and they didn't make them for the ST165. The used ones are costly, and not worth the headache (even if you wanted to do a re-pin).
 
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