Its no doubt to people that own these that there aren't a ton left. So I'm currently in the restoration of one right now and and I'm wondering if it would be better to try to make it as stock as possible? Or should i just do whatever i feel like? How much do you think the value of these will increase in the future?
Value of a St165
- Thread starter Allenm301
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___Scott___
Active member
My personal opinion is that an "unmolested" ST165 is worth a lot more than a modified one.
If the car looks clean, rust-free and well-cared for, then it has re-sale value. A car that's heavily modified (with a few exceptions) or rusty or screams neglect is going to be a tough sell.
The one exception of a modified car is one that has been done impeccably well in every detail. That one may sell for good money, but for substantially less than the cost of building it in the first place.
Edit: missing word 'less'.
If the car looks clean, rust-free and well-cared for, then it has re-sale value. A car that's heavily modified (with a few exceptions) or rusty or screams neglect is going to be a tough sell.
The one exception of a modified car is one that has been done impeccably well in every detail. That one may sell for good money, but for substantially less than the cost of building it in the first place.
Edit: missing word 'less'.
___Scott___
Active member
I can only think of three, maybe four, really really clean ST165s that have come up for sale in the last 15 years that were worth more than about $7500. There have been a few pretty clean ST165s that were worth around $4k during that same time frame. The vast majority seem to be either projects or basket cases in need of nearly everything and they seem to be worth between $250 and $2500.
Again for me personally, I don't like surprises so the stuff below $2500 is not worth considering. For a lot of people though, that's "entry level" pricing and they are up for the challenge so that's the area most seem to sell for.
I paid around $7k for my first ST165 about 18 years ago and around $4k for the one I drive now. Both were very clean low mile cars. The first one started to get a little rusty but was still a better car than most of the $2500'ish stuff I see, so I asked $3500 and was willing let it go for $2500 to someone who would appreciate it and take care of it. There wasn't much interest in it so I gave it to my brother and a few nephews have been driving it for about five years.
So, even if you have a good clean ST165, you also need someone to recognise its value and have the money. That's a rare combination and that makes it hard to sell one of these cars for decent money. These cars are not investments now or at any time in the foreseeable future. Keep it, take good care of it, enjoy it while it lasts. Stash some money away and sit on it until you see the next really clean one come up for sale.
Again for me personally, I don't like surprises so the stuff below $2500 is not worth considering. For a lot of people though, that's "entry level" pricing and they are up for the challenge so that's the area most seem to sell for.
I paid around $7k for my first ST165 about 18 years ago and around $4k for the one I drive now. Both were very clean low mile cars. The first one started to get a little rusty but was still a better car than most of the $2500'ish stuff I see, so I asked $3500 and was willing let it go for $2500 to someone who would appreciate it and take care of it. There wasn't much interest in it so I gave it to my brother and a few nephews have been driving it for about five years.
So, even if you have a good clean ST165, you also need someone to recognise its value and have the money. That's a rare combination and that makes it hard to sell one of these cars for decent money. These cars are not investments now or at any time in the foreseeable future. Keep it, take good care of it, enjoy it while it lasts. Stash some money away and sit on it until you see the next really clean one come up for sale.
underscore
Well-known member
An important thing to remember with "niche" cars like these is that you won't be able to sell them for their full value if you want to sell it quickly, you have to be prepared to sit on it for a while or you'll lose a bunch of money selling it quickly to someone who doesn't really care about them.
I think I speak for many when I say most Alltrac purchases were "not" for investment purposes. Everyone (posting above) is right. You'll see many stock Alltracs in need of resto-mods (good buys for those with a vision). For investments there are better cars out there (mostly domestic classics), but Alltrac ownership is usually a labor of love (and busted knuckles).
Don't expect to make much money off most Alltracs. Not to say you won't make any either.
In my case, I haven't had any problems selling them. Most sold quickly, and very close to asking price (some above asking). I'm 1/4 way into one of my (resto mod) projects, and have a friend offering me good enough money to consider selling once the car is done . (Paint, engine swap a host of other things). (Not interested in selling)
Don't expect to make much money off most Alltracs. Not to say you won't make any either.
In my case, I haven't had any problems selling them. Most sold quickly, and very close to asking price (some above asking). I'm 1/4 way into one of my (resto mod) projects, and have a friend offering me good enough money to consider selling once the car is done . (Paint, engine swap a host of other things). (Not interested in selling)
AlltracAvenger
Member
Very good points all around.
At least at this point in time it's going to be hard selling a '165 for top dollar. While there's a lot of classic car people who believe the next generation of classic collectable cars will be Japanese sport compacts of the '70s-'90s(and I tend to believe that as there's already a market for cars like the first-gen Celicas), that time really hasn't arrived yet for the ST165. It's very much a niche market, at least right now. The situation might be quite different in the next five to ten years.
Personally I'd be willing to pay about $5-7K for a more or less good condition, turn-key '165 with no to minor issues. Is that realistic? However, part of that is because there's a lot of attachment and nostalgia for the platform as my first car was a '162. There's a lot of folks who might want one as a way to score a rare AWD turbo car on cheap, and would be willing to go for a DSM, Galant VR4, or perhaps a fixer-upper WRX instead. Even here, there are people who would likely pick up a '165 if the price is right but would rather have a '185. I'm not saying there isn't a fanbase for '165s, but I don't think there's too many of us around.
However, at the bottom of things I'm not seeing very many clean '165s or at least not many for sale at this point in time. I admit this is a bit discouraging as I'm going to be in the market for a good one(read: not someone else's project as I made that same mistake years ago) in a few months. Any advice for those approaching this from the other end; the ones who have both the money and an enthusiasm for these cars?
At least at this point in time it's going to be hard selling a '165 for top dollar. While there's a lot of classic car people who believe the next generation of classic collectable cars will be Japanese sport compacts of the '70s-'90s(and I tend to believe that as there's already a market for cars like the first-gen Celicas), that time really hasn't arrived yet for the ST165. It's very much a niche market, at least right now. The situation might be quite different in the next five to ten years.
Personally I'd be willing to pay about $5-7K for a more or less good condition, turn-key '165 with no to minor issues. Is that realistic? However, part of that is because there's a lot of attachment and nostalgia for the platform as my first car was a '162. There's a lot of folks who might want one as a way to score a rare AWD turbo car on cheap, and would be willing to go for a DSM, Galant VR4, or perhaps a fixer-upper WRX instead. Even here, there are people who would likely pick up a '165 if the price is right but would rather have a '185. I'm not saying there isn't a fanbase for '165s, but I don't think there's too many of us around.
However, at the bottom of things I'm not seeing very many clean '165s or at least not many for sale at this point in time. I admit this is a bit discouraging as I'm going to be in the market for a good one(read: not someone else's project as I made that same mistake years ago) in a few months. Any advice for those approaching this from the other end; the ones who have both the money and an enthusiasm for these cars?
Sifu
New member
IMHO about the collectibility of any gen Alltrac.
It's a long shot but these will never hit the status of a Toyota Supra, Corolla GTS, Civic, Integra, MR2, Miata, 240z, etc. They will have a following much like the MGs but without the aftermarket support. Sure there will be examples but overall I say enjoy your Alltrac. Restore her, fix her, modify her, enjoy her.
It's a long shot but these will never hit the status of a Toyota Supra, Corolla GTS, Civic, Integra, MR2, Miata, 240z, etc. They will have a following much like the MGs but without the aftermarket support. Sure there will be examples but overall I say enjoy your Alltrac. Restore her, fix her, modify her, enjoy her.