Which gen 3S is best for racing??

Since my build is finally under way I'm torn between which gen 3S to run once my 1st gen bites the bullet... lower cost for used motors and parts availability would make the 2nd gen more cost effective. The 3rd gen is obviously the best of the 1st 3 generations but the 4th gen with coil on plug and just being more refined(from what i've read) is peeking my interest... i have to run a oem turbo and an inlet restrictor so big power isnt my goal... but i will need cams to setup and tune the motor like a rally car to increase and broaden the torque curve since i'll be running out of steam probably below 6500 rpm...

also as most of us know of the oil pressure issues and valvecover/pcv problems under high g-load corners... i just want the most information regarding remedies for known problems to keep my motor reliable. Swapping a motor between races or overnight for Sundays races is a task i'd like to avoid with our cars... having pulled a number of alltrac motors out its quite the knuckle breaker compared to swapping a miata motor and also ridiculously expensive to have two identically built 3s motors....

any thoughts, feedback and remedies for the known problems would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks!
 

MWP

New member
Budget?
What type of racing? Drag/Circuit/Rally?

If your seriously racing (mid-high budget) and have to stick with a 3/5S, then a redtop or blacktop BEAMS based engine is the way to go.
The BEAMS engines breath far better than even the best ported gen3/4 engine will do.
 
SCCA Road racing. I am limited on the engine build as i cant mix and match heads and blocks and it must remain a 2.0 liter.... So i'm pretty much limited to using a 3s long block... diff gens are allowed though...
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
My understanding the 3rd gen has a better PVC system that helps with oiling issues on hard turns and the pan is better designed for the same reason. I imagine you would use an aftermarket pan either way. There is a thread on here relating to the PVC system.
 

klue

New member
for racing I would go with the gen 3. Gen 4 might be more difficult to get parts for in a pinch
 

MWP

New member
Go gen4 3SGTE from a ST215 or ST246.
They have great useable power, response & reliability out of the box.

Yeah, some parts wont be as common as a gen3, but that will change in the future as gen3's age, and gen4's become more common.
Plus you wont need as many parts for a gen4 as they are more reliable.
 

underscore

Well-known member
Gen 4 is more prevalent in your neck of the woods MWP, it won't be as common over here. Gen 2 and 3 will be easier to source parts and support for over here thanks to the 205's and SW20's.
 

aus jd 2703

New member
Are you allowed turbo a N/A motor? If yes beams redtop if on a budget. Black top if more funds as ull need to drill and tap block. Change oil pans. And have a ecu capable of dual vvti.
If you must start with a turbo motor I would personally forge a gen 4 engine.
The cas and cop are both nice. The side feed suits a FMIC and the head is superior to a gen 3 and I believe kelford now do cams for gen 4's.
 
aus jd 2703":1zclls7a said:
Are you allowed turbo a N/A motor? If yes beams redtop if on a budget. Black top if more funds as ull need to drill and tap block. Change oil pans. And have a ecu capable of dual vvti.
If you must start with a turbo motor I would personally forge a gen 4 engine.
The cas and cop are both nice. The side feed suits a FMIC and the head is superior to a gen 3 and I believe kelford now do cams for gen 4's.

I'm leaning towards the gen 4 for those reasons but I did want to run the Moroso oil pan since a dry sump is just out of the budget and I dont think it will fit... are there any baffled sumps for a gen4?

I did however get a concession from the rule board to run the 3sge side feed on my first gen, I requested it for obvious reasons :)
 

Mafix

New member
moroso pan fixes many issues. i'd say stay gen 1. they are simple engines and you can run an entire gen 1 ge top end should it take a shit on ya. I made nearly 400whp/400tq on a gen 1 with stock cams, 2.0l, and pump gas. just need a small pcv change. easy to do.
 

klue

New member
the gen 3/4 dont have the high G oiling issues that the gen 1/2 have. the pan is a proper sumped pan
 

MWP

New member
underscore":1bwn52ey said:
Gen 4 is more prevalent in your neck of the woods MWP, it won't be as common over here. Gen 2 and 3 will be easier to source parts and support for over here thanks to the 205's and SW20's.

Maybe, but not that much more (all gen4's in Aus are personal imports too).
Amayama is the place to go for genuine gen4 (and gen1/2/3 for that matter) parts that can't be had locally.

klue":1bwn52ey said:
the gen 3/4 dont have the high G oiling issues that the gen 1/2 have. the pan is a proper sumped pan

^ this.

If you want to be extra sure, have the steel pan section extended towards the the front or back of the car (not to the sides).
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
I would say gen 4 also. The gen 3 and 4 were never sold here, so part availability is probably in the same ball park. There is a company in your area that does gen 4 swaps on MR2's and seem to sell alot of the routine maintenance stuff(gaskets, etc). I went with gen 4 cause of coil on plug and more power stock then the other gens. The main weakness, from what I understand, is the rods. That shouldnt be an issue for you since your not going big power, plus its already side feed to start.

http://www.primemr2.com/store/c4/GEN4_Replacement_&_Tune-Up_Parts.html
 
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