Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

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Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:02 am

If it weren't for the clear timing cover I installed I would have never noticed wear to my recently replaced timing belt (replaced mid Dec.) and would have definitely driven the car till it snapped.
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After searching the forum I found this thread but all the pics have dead links. Regardless, my issue sounds similar.
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13529&view=next

Has anyone else had a problem with the inside of the belt being shaved away till the belt is almost half original width like mine is?

When I replaced the belt I also replaced both #1&2 pulleys and the waterpump. I'm starting to wonder if I installed the cupped washer between the engine/crank gear backwards? ?
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Last edited by FC Zach on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:10 am

From this pic prior to installing the engine, I can say with certainty that I used the tapered screw in the waterpump so no wear from there. .
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When I had to take everything back apart (late Dec.) to replace both cam seals (again :x ) I had suspected the belt was thinner than before and looked all over the best I could but saw no possible areas where rubbing could occur :shrug:
Last edited by FC Zach on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby Sifu » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:09 pm

This was my first big wtfh moment with my Alltrac. My water pump shaft (holding the gear) was bent causing the inner side of deflecting. It was enough so my car wouldn't start.

Also if you do replace the pump then please try to get the Toyota part as ASIN replacement was a gear tooth less than stock. Not sure if its for all ASIN but for the Alltrac it had us scratching our heads for about an hour trying to figure out why the belt kept slipping.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby yyonline » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:04 am

Sifu wrote:Also if you do replace the pump then please try to get the Toyota part as ASIN replacement was a gear tooth less than stock.


What Aisin part # did you use? I ask as I have a new in the box Aisin water pump on my parts shelf that I plan to put in the car eventually.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby Sifu » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:43 pm

I went with a Toyota water pump. About $120.

The AISIN was listed as OEM but clearly wasn't (helped a buddy on his MR2). This was about 10 years ago so I do not have that information anymore. Maybe they fixed it but just a heads up.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:39 am

I believe I found the cause of all the destruction. . I think the replacement No1 idler assy. was bent, causing the belt to pull inward.

The replacement belt arrived yesterday so I made the time to finally get around to tearing the car apart before the belt snapped.

Here is the top cover removed. Had it not been for this fancy clear cover I would have not caught this excessive wear and would have certainly been left stranded with a broken timing belt so I can without a doubt say that it paid for itself.
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And now I present you the bottom cover (which is a PITA to remove with the engine installed BTW!), something doesn't look right here does it? ? :shrug:
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While searching for the culprit I found this wear spot on the water pump but I highly doubted the pump could cause this mess considering the wear to the belt I can only imagine there would be more destruction to the aluminum pump housing so I continued looking. . .
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Ah hA! this must be the culprit! This is upsetting as I had replaced the OEM assembly with this POS that was supplied with the timing belt component kit I purchased from RockAuto, here is the kit: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3384354&cc=1274194 (DO NOT BUY THIS GARBAGE) It doesn't come with all water pump seals pictured and the tensioner assembly may be bent like I presume mine is.
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Does this still has some life on it? ?
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Contacting Rock Auto now to see what can be done about this, the new tensioner assembly I ordered directly from Toyota which cost me $140 will arrive in the am. I hope a warranty will be honored with reimbursement, we'll see. .
Last edited by FC Zach on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby yyonline » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:54 am

Just curious - Is there a brand name stamped into the rubber seal on the failed pulley?

FYI you can order Koyo U00392B for the tensioner pulley. It's the exact same part as the dealer without the Toyota markup. I paid around $50 for mine.

I've never used a DNJ timing belt kit, and I will make sure not to after seeing this. I've used Aisin timing belt kits in the past for other Toyota engines (5SFE, 1MZFE) and those all came with top-shelf parts. Aisin water pumps, Koyo pulleys, Mitsuboshi belts - all the same companies that Toyota sources them from, just without the Toyota logo on them. (Though If I get one for the 3SGTE, I'll be sure to double check the water pump as mentioned by Sifu)
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:04 am

The problem isn't with the pulley or the bearing, I believe it is with the bracket it's mounted on and that is sold as a complete assembly from Toyota unfortunately.

"and those all came with top-shelf parts. Aisin water pumps, Koyo pulleys, Mitsuboshi belts"
Yes you are completely correct on this. . and I would have preferred the better kit but the other kit RockAuto has listed is for the Gen1 3SGTE I believe (non hydraulic tensioner). I accidentally ordered this kit first because of the better components but couldn't use it because the belt is smaller and the No.1 idler assembly is completely different.

EDIT: This is the SKF kit with all the name brand parts supplied as you have mentioned but isn't for my engine.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2848458&cc=1274194
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby yyonline » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:37 am

FC Zach wrote:The problem isn't with the pulley or the bearing, I believe it is with the bracket it's mounted on and that is sold as a complete assembly from Toyota unfortunately.


Koyo U00392B includes the pulley, bracket, bolt, and washer. Same part sold by Toyota as 13505-88383 for $144.24. Toyota also sources the part from Koyo.

See http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-U00392B-Engi ... B00F0VQVHK for an image of the part.

FC Zach wrote:Yes you are completely correct on this. . and I would have preferred the better kit but the other kit RockAuto has listed is for the Gen1 3SGTE I believe (non hydraulic tensioner). I accidentally ordered this kit first because of the better components but couldn't use it because the belt is smaller and the No.1 idler assembly is completely different.


Looks like Aisin doesn't make a kit for the 2nd gen 3SGTE, but you could easily make your own kit by buying all the parts separately.

The #1 pulley is Koyo PU355816RR9D which is Worldpac P/N W0133-1631471:
http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-Timing-Belt- ... 001G6NED2/

3SGTE water pump is Aisin WPT-056. WPT-056 is used only by the All-trac and MR2 turbo, so I'm fairly confident that's the correct application. (Interestingly - uses the same housing as the 5SFE water pump. I wonder if Sifu had a 5SFE water pump and that was why the pulley was a tooth off?)

Mitsuboshi timing belt: http://www.amazon.com/Mitsuboshi-W0133- ... B00449MM5E

The belt isn't much cheaper than the dealer price, but the other parts are significantly cheaper than the dealer while still good quality parts.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:08 am

Thanks for sharing the Koyo assembly (U00392B)! I'm going to order that and return the Toyota piece. . . Or use the Toyota piece and return the Toyota box with the Koyo part in it so I can get my car running without more down time, I don't think they'll ever know the difference.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby Sifu » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:44 pm

This I great info and someone should get the part numbers stickied.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby klue » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:16 am

All the ones I get from toyota are NSK bearings
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:32 pm

Back together again and without any sign of wear! The new Toyota No.1 idler assy. is the fix for my issue and with that being said I can certainly say that the DNJ branded parts are not worth trying. Hopefully the remaining components from that kit on my engine don't give me anymore trouble :shoots: .
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Last edited by FC Zach on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby FC Zach » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:35 pm

klue wrote:All the ones I get from toyota are NSK bearings

The idler I received from Toyota was a Koyo. . Guess they source from multiple companies :shrug:
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Re: Excessive wear to inside of timing belt. .

Postby yyonline » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:43 pm

FC Zach wrote:The idler I received from Toyota was a Koyo. . Guess they source from multiple companies :shrug:


Indeed. I've seen Koyo, NSK, and Nachi bearings on Toyota pulleys. I've heard they use NTN as well, but I've never seen NTN personally. All are top-shelf Japanese bearing manufacturers.
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