RHD in Ontario, Canada?

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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Locker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:24 pm

just out of curiosity what did the UCDA have to do with the insurance rates?
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:46 pm

From what I can recall UCDA/TADA/CADA lobbied VERY HEAVILY against the continued registration and importing of used RHD cars into the province and manipulated insurance companies into believing that RHD vehicles are unsafe.

Basically they shit the bed because they thought it would have cut into their sales of used cars and they were too lazy to bother getting on board and importing cars to sell on their lots.

http://www.tada.ca/Older-right-hand-drive-vehicles-should-be-banned-from-Canadian-roads
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Locker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:20 pm

Interesting read....

This is purely a technicality but it wasn't the UCDA (used car dealers association) that was upset... they make money selling RHD cars. It was the TADA/CADA (Toronto Auto Dealers & Canadian Auto Dealers) This lobby group represents new car dealerships that was trying to get them off the road.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:39 pm

Yeah it was ~6yrs ago when I read most of this stuff, I may have mixed in the BC used car dealer association with Ontario because they were undergoing a similar fight. Sean from Zen Autoworks was leading the fight out there and was interviewed on the CBC or CTV about it.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Locker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:56 pm

although I love all the RHD cars and they should be Insurable they also should charged a premium price. I've driven a couple and IMO are at a much greater risk of causing accidents than the same car in LHD due to the lack of proper visibility.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:20 pm

While you'd probably be right to assume that, I'm not sure how much real world data there is to back up that belief... Typically a RHD car is only disadvantaged in an LHD driving situation when you are required to make a turn across traffic and there is enough oncoming traffic to block your visibility.

IIRC In the UK when they began importing LHD vehicles they did some studies and found that drivers in LHD cars were actually less likely to get into accidents because the drivers were being extra cautious.
In 2007 ICBC also did a study and while it found that drivers in RHD cars were at the time 40% more likely to be in an accident the injuries from and severity of those accidents were no worse than drivers in LHD cars.

The whole RHD thing has definitely been ruined in Canada/Ontario due to a few bad drivers abusing the system and causing some gruesome accidents but who's to say that they wouldn't have done the same in an LHD car with the same features or power?

It's impossible to really come down on either side of the argument squarely without some real unbiased data. Personally if I have to pay a premium to enjoy my RHD vehicle then I will, but that premium shouldn't be equal to paying 3-4 times my normal insurance rate... It should be fair and within reason, something that the current RHD rates are not.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby underscore » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:33 pm

If you adjust your driving to match then they really aren't any greater of a risk, the people that have given RHD vehicles a bad name would've been getting into accidents in a LHD car just as often.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Locker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:42 pm

though I don't disagree with the theories of of them being as safe as left hand drive cars in practice it works the same as driving in the snow.
its snowing so people should be more cautious as stopping distance is worse and visibility is worse. Then some idiot ruins it for everyone and there is a pile up on the hwy.

A person's driving record should 100% play into the insurance premiums and the cars shouldn't be effectively impossible to insure and you shouldn't have to pay double or triple the premiums to insure the car.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:58 pm

Ok Back on topic a little...

This is news to me!!!
RightDrive has partnered with the RHD Club and found a permanent solution to RHD and Specialty vehicle insurance coverage. This has been over two years in the making and we are proud to see it finally taking flight.
https://www.rhdclub.com/how-to-get-club-insurance/

camry90, if you have time to look into this let us know how it goes!
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Brad_91 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:39 pm

Recently I had someone discuss with me that Ontario now will no longer insure RHD vehicles to anyone under the age of 25 years old.

Anyone else heard of this new law? I haven't had any time to look into it, but in 2010 I insured mine as a 20 year old. Tried to tell him he was wrong but he insisted a RHD import company had filled him in on this new law? :shrug:

I've been driving mine as a summer daily in Ontario for 5 years, and in my opinion it is the 'driver mod' that will cause accidents/ issues with safety, not the the car. There have been countless times when I am turning left at a light, and simply have to be safe and wait until I can see properly to turn safely. At worst that will anger someone waiting behind me, but it keeps me "safe". This is the only issue I can come up with. I never try to pass on single lane highways, (which is illegal in a RHD car IIRC), but I can see that also potentially being an issue for careless drivers of RHD cars. These can both be issues with LHD cars and careless drivers as well..

Parallel parking, merging on highways, and night driving all seem easier even than in a LHD car! Pros/Cons :)

Those are my .02 cents on RHD cars on LHD roads. I don't see why a premium should be charged, other than the fact that they are often "show" or "track" cars, which should have a premium whether its lhd or rhd IMO.
The premium should come from driving records.

I have 0 tickets in my RHD Celica, and at least one or two in my LHD winter cars over the years :). Maybe I should pay a premium in winter on LHD cars? :twisted:
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:57 pm

There is a LOT of misinformation floating around out there as to what is/isn't legal when it comes to a right hand drive vehicle in Ontario... I'll attempt to dispel some of that here.

Brad_91 wrote:Recently I had someone discuss with me that Ontario now will no longer insure RHD vehicles to anyone under the age of 25 years old.
Completely false.
There are no laws in the province that will stop insurers from insuring anyone at any age in any vehicle but a lot of insurance companies will set their own rules based on the risks they see in the market. The easiest way to insure a RHD vehicle at the moment is to go through Lant/Hagerty once the VEHICLE is +25yrs old, not the driver. That new RHD Club thing sounds different though.

Brad_91 wrote: I never try to pass on single lane highways, (which is illegal in a RHD car IIRC)
Completely false.
There is nothing on the books in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act that stops you from passing other traffic while driving a RHD car.
Have a read through the HTA: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08 Next time you get pulled over you might just know a little bit more than the officer and you'll be able to respectfully defend yourself if need be.

Another myth I hear frequently is this one: "You need to have a sign on the back in large letters saying RIGHT HAND DRIVE VEHICLE!"
Again, totally false.
If you can understand the legal language that the HTA is written in you'll see that that this is only a requirement for vehicles that are not equipped with electric turning indicators such as RHD farm or construction equipment or REALLY old RHD cars. The reasoning for this is so that when you have to use hand signals to indicate your turns the other drivers know to look to the passengers side and to heed them instead of just ignoring them as someone putting their arm out for a breeze.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK121 wrote:63. Every vehicle that is equipped with a right hand drive shall, unless it is equipped with a mechanical or electrical signal device as described in subsection 142 (6), have prominently displayed on the rear thereof, in bold face letters of not less than 50 millimetres in height and of a colour which is in contrast to that of the vehicle, the words,

“RIGHT HAND DRIVE VEHICLE”.

Ontario HTA: Subsection 142 (6) wrote:Requirements for signalling device
(6) A mechanical or electrical signal device shall clearly indicate the intention to turn, shall be visible and understandable during day-time and night-time from the front and from the rear of the vehicle for a distance of 30 metres, and shall be self-illuminated when used at any time from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (6).


I keep a copy of these sections of the HTA printed out in my car and will very respectfully offer it up and explain it to police whenever I get hassled, I also know a few other guys that do the same and none of us have ever been given that fateful $85 ticket for no sign.

Far too much time is spent in this province dealing with this kind of shit and not stuff that actually matters like mandatory driver education and licensing reforms. There's way too many people driving on our roads that are gravely incompetent or too senile to actually uphold the laws that are attached to the privilege that driving is.

Pardon the rant haha :smokes:
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Brad_91 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:32 pm

Thanks for the insight ^^^

It looks like there really isn't much mention of RHD restrictions in the Ontario document you've posted! I am still very cautious and rarely will pass on single lane highways.. Unless I have a trusty passenger willing to spot for me xD.
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby camry90 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:32 pm

thanks for the Link to the RHDClub. my car isn't ready to be driven so i will put that on hold
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby Corey » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:36 pm

This is depressing. I'm still trying to find an insurer for Quebec for my car. I looked at Silver Wheels for Ontario and they seem to have very affordable rates assuming you only drive the car 5000km a year.

SGI (Sask provincial insurance) for my GT4 was only 80$/month for full coverage. Same in BC. :x
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Re: RHD in Ontario, Canada?

Postby athousandleaves » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:45 pm

Have you tried RHD Club yet?
https://www.rhdclub.com/how-to-get-club-insurance/
They claim to be Canada wide, however I know Québec is a bit of a nexus of exclusions and weirdness... :shrug:
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