The truth about ST215 3sgte engine

MWP

New member
aus jd 2703":23184b5a said:
gen 3-4 are very similar in oiling. yes you could make a moroso pan work, but you would have to swap oil coolers make custom lines etc and in all honesty the gen 3-4 is a much better design.

No, it wont work :(
To use a Moroso sump on a gen4 you'll need to use a gen2 or 5S oil pump. You cant use one of those as crank pos sensor is mounted on the gen4 oil pump, and wont fit the gen2 of 5S pump.

As said though, there is no need to use the Moroso sump on a gen3 or gen4 at all.
They already have very good sumps.
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
msanders2":1ouh8n7e said:
Yes it can, but you would need the gen3/4 oil cooler set up and lines.

Could it? The gen 4 pan lower half is really small. Doesn't the gen 2 have a pan similar to the gen one that goes to both ends of the crank?
 

CSAlltrac

New member
Why is this even being discussed? This would be undoing one of the better designs of the newer gens and taking the engine backwards, even with a Moroso. The Gen3 and Gen4 do not oil starve like the Gen2.
 

TRDTurko

New member
CSAlltrac":13t2r2ib said:
Why is this even being discussed? This would be undoing one of the better designs of the newer gens and taking the engine backwards, even with a Moroso. The Gen3 and Gen4 do not oil starve like the Gen2.

Thats all I wanted to know lol. I guess my pan is going up for sale. probably to the guy who just bought my gen2
 

msanders2

New member
CSAlltrac":2tp6rw4h said:
Why is this even being discussed? This would be undoing one of the better designs of the newer gens and taking the engine backwards, even with a Moroso. The Gen3 and Gen4 do not oil starve like the Gen2.


He was asking if he could put a gen3/4 oil pan on a gen 2 engine, which would actually be an upgrade not a downgrade. If anything, it makes it easier to change your oil. Which is a huge plus cause We all hate where the factory oil filter is located.
 

CSAlltrac

New member
msanders2":uivn1d5l said:
CSAlltrac":uivn1d5l said:
Why is this even being discussed? This would be undoing one of the better designs of the newer gens and taking the engine backwards, even with a Moroso. The Gen3 and Gen4 do not oil starve like the Gen2.


He was asking if he could put a gen3/4 oil pan on a gen 2 engine, which would actually be an upgrade not a downgrade. If anything, it makes it easier to change your oil. Which is a huge plus cause We all hate where the factory oil filter is located.
:doh: Read it wrong. Thought he wanted a Moroso on his Gen3/4
 
Yeah you can, I swapped a Gen2 block in place of a Gen4 on my 215 engine. Some of the mounting points are missing but it still works fine. I think the 4 12mm bolts are about all that's missing. Make sure you get everything figured out and dry fitted before you silicone it. I think at-least one of the 2 studs that allow you to put the Gen 2 oil pan on before you put the bolts in have no place on the Gen 3/4 pan; The other will need to be removed and replaced with a bolt anyways because it is too short to put the nut on. I only figured this out with my silicone all in place and my hands full of it, not a good time.
Oh and I forgot, also to get this to work I had to get a Gen3 oil cooler and hard coolant pipes because the Gen4 cooler will not mount to the Gen2 block but the Gen3 will... And unfortunately the return or feed or whatever it is on the Gen4 block is in the front and the Gen2 is in the back by the transmission... so I had to cobble together a way to route that around the engine on the timing belt side. it took 2 hard pipes customized and 3 hoses, plus I had to make the outlet on the back of the Gen2 block larger by cutting a damaged Gen4 water hard line and fitting it over silicone it then use an extension and hammer to flare the smaller outlet to hold it in place. Surprisingly it all worked great first try no leaks and has held up. I should have taken pictures. :shock:
 

msanders2

New member
CTechBlueDragon":vwokiobc said:
Yeah you can, I swapped a Gen2 block in place of a Gen4 on my 215 engine. Some of the mounting points are missing but it still works fine. I think the 4 12mm bolts are about all that's missing. Make sure you get everything figured out and dry fitted before you silicone it. I think at-least one of the 2 studs that allow you to put the Gen 2 oil pan on before you put the bolts in have no place on the Gen 3/4 pan; The other will need to be removed and replaced with a bolt anyways because it is too short to put the nut on. I only figured this out with my silicone all in place and my hands full of it, not a good time.
Oh and I forgot, also to get this to work I had to get a Gen3 oil cooler and hard coolant pipes because the Gen4 cooler will not mount to the Gen2 block but the Gen3 will... And unfortunately the return or feed or whatever it is on the Gen4 block is in the front and the Gen2 is in the back by the transmission... so I had to cobble together a way to route that around the engine on the timing belt side. it took 2 hard pipes customized and 3 hoses, plus I had to make the outlet on the back of the Gen2 block larger by cutting a damaged Gen4 water hard line and fitting it over silicone it then use an extension and hammer to flare the smaller outlet to hold it in place. Surprisingly it all worked great first try no leaks and has held up. I should have taken pictures. :shock:

And now you don't burn your hands changing oil :)
 

abraxxa

Member
I used my ST205 Gen 3 wiring harness and changed the connectors where required to the ones from the Gen 4 harness. The water temp sensors are one example as the Gen 3 has two of them and the Gen 4 just one with 3 pins instead of 1 + 2 pins on the Gen 3.
Adapting the RHD Gen 4 harness to my LHD Gen 3 ST205 would have been much more work.
I have wired additional sensors like the trigger sensor with new cables right into the Haltech.
 

JDMSD1

New member
4th gen 3sgte is the best ever produced.simple,good power,reliable.
Easy wiring.5th gen drips down in extras and no increase in power,wiring issues.
3rd gen still uses a distributor,
What modern turbo motor doesn't have accurate firing coil packs?
Somebody just needs to figure out how to tune these,I'm sure in japan they can.
I installed this engine 5-6 years ago,when dipfktweak was ripping off people making harnesses.loser.
4th gen was like "supposedly hard to wire"then.
later you find its the easiest to wire.altho I haven't tuned one,I've seen an ecu and harnass modded for tuning.so as usual it can be done.
 

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warracer

New member
JDMSD1":1pjd35yx said:
4th gen 3sgte is the best ever produced.simple,good power,reliable.
Easy wiring.5th gen drips down in extras and no increase in power,wiring issues.
3rd gen still uses a distributor,
What modern turbo motor doesn't have accurate firing coil packs?
Somebody just needs to figure out how to tune these,I'm sure in japan they can.
I installed this engine 5-6 years ago,when dipfktweak was ripping off people making harnesses.loser.
4th gen was like "supposedly hard to wire"then.
later you find its the easiest to wire.altho I haven't tuned one,I've seen an ecu and harnass modded for tuning.so as usual it can be done.

Wait, its easy to wire a st215 engine in a st185? I can't seem to find any info on the subject anywhere
 

CSAlltrac

New member
warracer":3grx0b3v said:
JDMSD1":3grx0b3v said:
4th gen 3sgte is the best ever produced.simple,good power,reliable.
Easy wiring.5th gen drips down in extras and no increase in power,wiring issues.
3rd gen still uses a distributor,
What modern turbo motor doesn't have accurate firing coil packs?
Somebody just needs to figure out how to tune these,I'm sure in japan they can.
I installed this engine 5-6 years ago,when dipfktweak was ripping off people making harnesses.loser.
4th gen was like "supposedly hard to wire"then.
later you find its the easiest to wire.altho I haven't tuned one,I've seen an ecu and harnass modded for tuning.so as usual it can be done.

Wait, its easy to wire a st215 engine in a st185? I can't seem to find any info on the subject anywhere
Very easy. Send it to WireGap and done.
http://www.wiregapinc.com
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
CSAlltrac":2qv29k6y said:
warracer":2qv29k6y said:
JDMSD1":2qv29k6y said:
4th gen 3sgte is the best ever produced.simple,good power,reliable.
Easy wiring.5th gen drips down in extras and no increase in power,wiring issues.
3rd gen still uses a distributor,
What modern turbo motor doesn't have accurate firing coil packs?
Somebody just needs to figure out how to tune these,I'm sure in japan they can.
I installed this engine 5-6 years ago,when dipfktweak was ripping off people making harnesses.loser.
4th gen was like "supposedly hard to wire"then.
later you find its the easiest to wire.altho I haven't tuned one,I've seen an ecu and harnass modded for tuning.so as usual it can be done.

Wait, its easy to wire a st215 engine in a st185? I can't seem to find any info on the subject anywhere
Very easy. Send it to WireGap and done.
http://www.wiregapinc.com

what he said. Mine took a few weeks and 400ish.
 

JDMSD1

New member
Hahaha,that's luxury.ive never had a project budget that allowed me to spend $500 on a custom harnass by someone else.sounds nice tho.
But the engine is too easy to start with a good relay fuse to the harnass 8 positive points and 2 negatives they run.id rather buy something else for my money.
 

UtahSleeper

Active member
JDMSD1":8s5kqruq said:
Hahaha,that's luxury.ive never had a project budget that allowed me to spend $500 on a custom harnass by someone else.sounds nice tho.
But the engine is too easy to start with a good relay fuse to the harnass 8 positive points and 2 negatives they run.id rather buy something else for my money.

Guess it depends on where your experience is. I knew that if I tried to do the harness myself, even with instructions, I would have taken months to potentially finish it. Where as I can ship it off, work on other things, and simply install it. 400ish for a plug and play harness isn't bad in my eyes. Yes, I would have rather saved the money, but I hate having things taken apart and scattered for months or longer.
 
Can anyone shed some light on the little stickers found on the upper timing cover for the Gen 4s? The majority seem to be labeled "N2", but I have also seen "N3" (that also happen to be yellow?) and "N4" which are not uncommon. I feel like I may have even seen an "N5" once or twice, as well. Despite searching, the only 2 results that are even relevant have gone unanswered. I feel like it's some sort of manufacture date batch indicator, and/or perhaps denotes whether the engine came with a manual or automatic transmission attached from the factory. These hypotheses are due to the fact that the Gen 5 engines I've seen have had "N6" label stickers. Either way, any insight on this would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: "N5" sighting confirmed! (On a manual transmission Gen 4 motorset, and yellow)
1zoeu6d.png
 

JDMSD1

New member
I have seen N2 N4.
Interesting question.
N4 harnass is slightly different at 12 pin plug.
I've noticed.
 
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