Spring Rates

Suspension and other discussion

Spring Rates

Postby not12listen » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm

alrighty. i've done some searching on here, and have yet to find a good source for spring rates and options availalbe for the Celicas. i've already been emailing a few vendors, and got some replies.

i want to create a single area for people to come to, to get an idea of what is availalbe, and what their options are.

Eibach:
http://eibach.com/ (usa)
http://www.eibach.co.uk/ (uk)

st16x (excludes AllTrac)
8212.140
Front 108lbs <-> 228lbs (Dual Rate spring)
Rear 68lbs <-> 177lbs (Dual Rate spring)

st18x (excludes AllTrac)
8207.140
Front 142lbs <-> 191lbs (Dual Rate spring)
Rear 68lbs <-> 177lbs (Dual Rate spring)

st185 (AllTrac specific)
E8233.140
(waiting for the info)

AVO:
http://www.avouk.com/

ST162
85-026
35mm ride height drop (1.3 inches)

ST165
85-020
35 mm ride height drop (1.3 inches)

ST182
85-028
40mm ride height drop (1.5 inches)

ST185
85-038
40mm ride height drop (1.5 inches)

ST202
85-032
40mm ride height drop (1.5 inches)


i will be updating this as info comes to me.
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Postby gt4tified » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:11 pm

Megan Racing:

ST185 (all) - I emailed them to inquire if the had a specific application for the alltrac and they said no, BUT the application listed for the ST185 took into account the alltrac and as such, the spring was made as a compromise between the GT/ST and GT4.
Rates:
Front - 300
Rear - 350

(Don't ask me why the rear is stiffer) :shrug:
ST185 JDM GT-FOUR RC- "White Trash"
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Postby SBCelicaGT » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:36 pm

gt4tified wrote:Megan Racing:

ST185 (all) - I emailed them to inquire if the had a specific application for the alltrac and they said no, BUT the application listed for the ST185 took into account the alltrac and as such, the spring was made as a compromise between the GT/ST and GT4.
Rates:
Front - 300
Rear - 350

(Don't ask me why the rear is stiffer) :shrug:


The higher rear spring rate will increase the rear roll stiffness which in turn will help the car rotate. On the extreme end, many Honda Challenge guys will run rear springs that are almost twice as stiff as the springs in front AND will utilize a very large rear sway bar.

For my 90 GT, I chose 420lb/in front and 400lb/in rear (with stock GT sway bars) even though the weight split is 63:37.
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Postby allblackalltrac » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:49 pm

Apex'i
SS Super Suspension (ST185)
lowered 25mm
340 lb/in front
335 lb/in rear

Apex
(ST162)
lowered 1.6 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Apex
(ST165)
lowered 1.75 in front/1.5 in rear
??? lb/in front
273 lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST162)
lowered 1.6 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST184)
lowered 1.8 in front/1.7 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST165)
lowered 1.7 in front/1.6 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST185)
lowered 1.5 in front/1.4 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Suspension Techniques
Street (ST16x)
lowered 1.30 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Suspension Techniques
Street (ST184)
lowered 1.5 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear


You can find some info from the Suspension Tuning links from the AllTrac homepage but they are pretty out dated so I would take that information with a grain of salt.

http://alltrac.net/tuning/springfaq.html
http://alltrac.net/tuning/springs.html
Last edited by allblackalltrac on Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby allblackalltrac » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:56 pm

gt4tified wrote:Megan Racing:

ST185 (all) - I emailed them to inquire if the had a specific application for the alltrac and they said no, BUT the application listed for the ST185 took into account the alltrac and as such, the spring was made as a compromise between the GT/ST and GT4.
Rates:
Front - 300
Rear - 350

(Don't ask me why the rear is stiffer) :shrug:


Thats actually 250 lb/in for the rear and not 350

BTW front is lowered 2" and the rear is 1.75-2"
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Postby gt4tified » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:19 pm

Yeah....that's right I was now going to post that the original information was posted on the site incorrectly and when I wrote to them a couple of weeks ago, I saw that they corrected it.

I just bought a set and waiting till I get my new KYB front strut inserts and control arm bushings to then install the complete thing.
ST185 JDM GT-FOUR RC- "White Trash"
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Postby SBCelicaGT » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:02 pm

allblackalltrac wrote:
gt4tified wrote:Megan Racing:

ST185 (all) - I emailed them to inquire if the had a specific application for the alltrac and they said no, BUT the application listed for the ST185 took into account the alltrac and as such, the spring was made as a compromise between the GT/ST and GT4.
Rates:
Front - 300
Rear - 350

(Don't ask me why the rear is stiffer) :shrug:


Thats actually 250 lb/in for the rear and not 350

BTW front is lowered 2" and the rear is 1.75-2"


300 lb/in front, 250 lb/in out back? Wow! In my opinion, that's way too soft for any serious performance on the heavy Alltrac. With a loss of nearly 2 inches of bump travel, I would think you can almost guarantee you’ll be riding on the bump stops (or impacting them often at bad times, like mid-corner).

Then again, that choice in spring rates would probably be fine for a boulevard cruiser. :lol:
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Postby Toxygene » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:08 pm

allblackalltrac wrote:Apex'i
SS Super Suspension (ST185)
lowered 25mm
340 lb/in front
335 lb/in rear

Apex
(ST162)
lowered 1.6 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Apex
(ST165)
lowered 1.75 in front/1.5 in rear
??? lb/in front
273 lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST162)
lowered 1.6 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST184)
lowered 1.8 in front/1.7 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST165)
lowered 1.7 in front/1.6 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Intrax
Street (ST185)
lowered 1.5 in front/1.4 in rear
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Suspension Techniques
Street (ST16x)
lowered 1.30 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear

Suspension Techniques
Street (ST184)
lowered 1.5 in
??? lb/in front
??? lb/in rear


You can find some info from the Suspension Tuning links from the AllTrac homepage but they are pretty out dated so I would take that information with a grain of salt.

http://alltrac.net/tuning/springfaq.html
http://alltrac.net/tuning/springs.html


I didn't know Apex'i made suspension parts for our cars. Good info
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Postby SBCelicaGT » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:40 pm

Toxygene wrote:
I didn't know Apex'i made suspension parts for our cars.


They don't. Wrong company. He's referring to the suspension parts company, APEX Suspension Systems (http://www.apexsuspension.com/)

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Postby allblackalltrac » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:06 pm

SBCelicaGT wrote:
Toxygene wrote:
I didn't know Apex'i made suspension parts for our cars.


They don't. Wrong company. He's referring to the suspension parts company, APEX Suspension Systems (http://www.apexsuspension.com/)

Adrian


:? hehe newbie, they do and are extremely rare, here is the .PDF and ask me how I know cause I have a set myself

http://web.archive.org/web/200404190402 ... bo1030.htm

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15550
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super- "above," cali- "beauty," fragilistic- "delicate," expiali- "to atone," and docious- "educable," the sum meaning roughly "Atoning for extreme and delicate beauty while still being highly educable."
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Postby gt4tified » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:11 pm

SBCelicaGT wrote:
allblackalltrac wrote:
gt4tified wrote:Megan Racing:

ST185 (all) - I emailed them to inquire if the had a specific application for the alltrac and they said no, BUT the application listed for the ST185 took into account the alltrac and as such, the spring was made as a compromise between the GT/ST and GT4.
Rates:
Front - 300
Rear - 350

(Don't ask me why the rear is stiffer) :shrug:


Thats actually 250 lb/in for the rear and not 350

BTW front is lowered 2" and the rear is 1.75-2"


300 lb/in front, 250 lb/in out back? Wow! In my opinion, that's way too soft for any serious performance on the heavy Alltrac. With a loss of nearly 2 inches of bump travel, I would think you can almost guarantee you’ll be riding on the bump stops (or impacting them often at bad times, like mid-corner).

Then again, that choice in spring rates would probably be fine for a boulevard cruiser. :lol:


Well my stock set up is soo shot that this was the easiest, cheapest option, until I get something better. Let me state that I'm not into spirited cornering and if I re-build the engine, it would only be for the car to go in a straight line! I've also ordered some new KYB AGX's so that should help a lot.
ST185 JDM GT-FOUR RC- "White Trash"
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8264/dynographsmallstretchedmu9.jpg[/img][/url]
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Postby SBCelicaGT » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:16 pm

allblackalltrac wrote: :? hehe newbie, they do and are extremely rare, here is the .PDF and ask me how I know cause I have a set myself

http://web.archive.org/web/200404190402 ... bo1030.htm

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15550


Touché. My mistake.

gt4tified wrote:Well my stock set up is soo shot that this was the easiest, cheapest option, until I get something better. Let me state that I'm not into spirited cornering and if I re-build the engine, it would only be for the car to go in a straight line! I've also ordered some new KYB AGX's so that should help a lot.


Fair enough. Though, keep in mind it is not ideal to have your shock absorbers make up for soft springs.
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Postby Toxygene » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:21 pm

SBCelicaGT wrote:
allblackalltrac wrote: :? hehe newbie, they do and are extremely rare, here is the .PDF and ask me how I know cause I have a set myself

http://web.archive.org/web/200404190402 ... bo1030.htm

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15550


Touché. My mistake.

gt4tified wrote:Well my stock set up is soo shot that this was the easiest, cheapest option, until I get something better. Let me state that I'm not into spirited cornering and if I re-build the engine, it would only be for the car to go in a straight line! I've also ordered some new KYB AGX's so that should help a lot.


Fair enough. Though, keep in mind it is not ideal to have your shock absorbers make up for soft springs.


It's all good. It's not like we could learn every sinlge aftermarket company's catalog listings.. HAHa.. that would be insane.
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Postby Gary ST165 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:33 pm

300 lb/in front, 250 lb/in out back? Wow! In my opinion, that's way too soft for any serious performance on the heavy Alltrac. With a loss of nearly 2 inches of bump travel, I would think you can almost guarantee you’ll be riding on the bump stops (or impacting them often at bad times, like mid-corner).

Then again, that choice in spring rates would probably be fine for a boulevard cruiser.


agree 100%






Currently i use DMS Gold 40mm coilovers (30 point adjustable) with 12" x 60mm ID, 450 lb/in front & 350lb/in rears.
Its comfy but would prefer to go a little stiffer on the back...for fast road use.


I also get to be a passenger in an st185 set up with KYB AGX 4 way inserts and adjustable coilover platforms with 600lb/in front & 500 lb/in rear.
no complaints from me. Adequate firm ride and no body roll or hitting the bump stops.
ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

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Postby gt4tified » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:52 pm

DMS.....dayum, you guys must have some deep pockets! :D
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