Roreri—The New Motor One Month Review

Roreri

Active member
As the group might know, I had the Roreri over with Ty Saxon’s shop (TCS Motorsports) in Covington Kentucky for a Gen5 Caldina swap. I went with all the options. The job took longer than I wanted partly because fuck TCS is busy (65 2GR-FE swaps into MR2s alone in 2023!), partly because of subcontractor throughput issues for the powder coating, and partly because fuck, Roreri was probably the only Celica swap they did in 2023 because as we know we pilot rare birds. But also because at the end they discovered that a big part of my original Gen2’s problems were caused by the very rusty fuel tank. In full retrospect if I had fixed that the original motor probably had another 100K miles in it but even considering the cost no regrets. I nabbed an FMIC, a more modern motor and 75hp. That fuel tank took some time to correct, but I picked Roreri up the first week in March and drove it west to Colorado, visiting friends along the way. What a great experience.

Here’s my thoughts after a month:

General performance is great. All the performance adds Ty said I’d notice are there. Broader power band, great pickup, and so on. I’m definitely noticing a more peppy feel. The turbo noises are great. The Gen4/5 Caldina motor is an absolute upgrade, and concerns about weaker rods than other Gen motors is not a factor at 300 crank hp. The Roreri eats twisties, hardball or dirt road, and tucks in to corners with pleasure. I have Blizzaks on it until May and will switch to Vredestein Quatracs for summer. Good all around tires, given the frequent afternoon rains we have in Colorado. The Blizzaks are soft and stand in pretty well for a gravel tire, and grip well. The Quatracs are a bit chirpy on the corners.

However, all is not perfect. There are a few things I have to report.

One, and most disturbingly, the motor has taken to straight DYING on me. The way this presents is I’ll be driving and the motor loses power and is unresponsive to throttle input. I can see the manual boost gauge register decreasing vacuum in response to throttle input but it does not ever go above 0 into boost. Well, maybe a little. Like 1-2 lbs. But no power. The motor then dies. Sometimes it recovers. If it dies I can restart on the roll and drive on, and have done so on several occasions now. This initially occurred at the start of the day on a cold day—like repeatedly—but it would cease after a while. However, it just happened twice in the middle of the day with the motor full warm. Straights or curves don’t seem to matter and plenty of gas in the tank.

Two, low idle. Is there a set screw I can adjust on the throttle pedal or linkage? Can’t recall if the Gen5 is DBW or physical link off the top of my head. The motor likes to idle at 600 to 550rpm and that’s JUST low enough to be annoying. It’s hilarious to me that the old Gen2 was like this and now the Gen5 is like this. Something in the setup that didn’t change—fuel system, exhaust—is causing this.

Three, electrical dropouts. Colorado is notorious for bumpy roads and the stereo speakers and AutoMeter gauges drop out frequently—might possibly be related to One, above. I’ve also noted a bit of headlight flutter on throttle. The beam intensity will drop while on heavy throttle. Seems that something needs locking down. If I were to start battening down electrical connections starting with the battery terminal that would be a good start I figger.

So, like we all know, All-Trac/GT-Four ownership isn’t easy.
 

Attachments

  • image0.jpeg
    image0.jpeg
    173.5 KB · Views: 6

underscore

Well-known member
Potentially all 3 issues could be caused by a loose ground(s). I'd double check they're all clean and tight for starters. For the battery terminals make sure they're getting tight before the bolt bottoms out. When in doubt toss a small shim between the terminal and post.

The first sounds like the fuel pump might be shutting off. I don't know what they do with the fuel circuitry with the swap but make sure it's all solid. If it still has stuff like the COR involved see if you can still bypass it in the diag box.

For the idle potentially the tach is reading a bit off, so it might be the correct idle speed, but I know what you mean about a slightly too low idle being annoying.

Three is definitely a corroded ground somewhere and a loose power or ground somewhere else. The interior stuff I'd chase the wiring and see what's common between them. It could be as simple as a loose crimp in the stereo adapter harness, depending on how they tied it all in.
 

Gert

Active member
Dunno about the 5the gen 3S-GTE, but the 2e gen idle can be adjusted with the throttle stop. BUT, I do not know if you do that what the TPS values are doing with the stock ECU.
Besides, the 2e gen idle is controlled by the idle valve.

What I did read: sometimes people are drilling an tiny whole in de throttle plate, just enough to encounter some extra air to the engine. More air = more rpm.
 

abraxxa

Member
I had a Gen 4 ST215 Caldina engine until the block cracked, now Beams.
The Gen 4 has an idle control valve which allows air to bypass the throttle body. You can't miss it, it sits on the underside of the throttle body.
The difference to the Gen 3 idle control valve is that you only need to PWM control one side, the other is a spring that returns it. Gen 3 needs two ECU outputs that are vice-versa.
Which ECU are you running? If the OEM ECU you won't be able to adjust the idle control valve but maybe the throttle body has a screw for the minimal opening you can adjust.

Regarding losing power your fuel lines/filter/etc might be clogged by the rusted fuel tank.
 

Tippo

Well-known member
The power loss I experienced is very similar on a different one of my cars. First, I had a bad ground which was swapped out and resolved. Then suddenly it happened again, but slightly different. Turns out that was the APB MAP. Car still stuttered here and there. My guess it was the ECU or a loose ground/wire on it. I sold that car, but I was going down a rabbit hole before hand. It really comes down to chasing all the issues that could cause it.
 

Roreri

Active member
Okay. Misadventures in All-Trac ing today.

I had some exhaust fumes entering the cabin. It was getting worse. I took it in and they found that the baffling from the who knows how old muffler had come loose and was blocking flow.

So. That dead wire beast was extracted and we’re going with that for now. Did I just add straight pipe to no cat? Probably. It wasn’t appreciably louder and I probably added 10hp.

And who knows but that the backpressure might have been killing the motor intermittently.
 

Attachments

  • image0.jpeg
    image0.jpeg
    436.2 KB · Views: 9
  • image1.jpeg
    image1.jpeg
    822.1 KB · Views: 9

Monachopsis

Member
Okay. Misadventures in All-Trac ing today.

I had some exhaust fumes entering the cabin. It was getting worse. I took it in and they found that the baffling from the who knows how old muffler had come loose and was blocking flow.

So. That dead wire beast was extracted and we’re going with that for now. Did I just add straight pipe to no cat? Probably. It wasn’t appreciably louder and I probably added 10hp.

And who knows but that the backpressure might have been killing the motor intermittently.
I wonder how much less smoke you shoot
 

Roreri

Active member
Oh I dunno. I never look back. Not the way of my people.

There's been more, and I solved the exhaust in the cabin with some JB Weld SteelStik. That will serve as a temporary fix until I do a more permanent solution.
 

Roreri

Active member
I think I have the cut outs figured out. It's my Shorai light weight lithium battery. It's a glorious little work of technology and shaving 30lbs off the front left corner has been noticeable. But...

I had an LFX36L3-BS12 in it before, and as I liked it, I bought a new one and sent it to TCS to install with the swap. Well, what must have happened, is that it discharged sometime after install--the whole TCS process was nine months after all--and is now damaged and unable to maintain full voltage. It's gotten worse, with the motor failing to crank.

After testing, I discovered that the battery settles at 10.92 Volts, declining from 13.57 Volts after about 12 hours. Not enough to turn the motor over and get it started.

I can use a battery jump pack to get the motor started, and the Shorai battery will provide enough buffer for the alternator to idle it, but it will always cut out when first setting out, and require a jump. I can get it charged enough if I drive it right (3000rpm) and then it will stay working for long periods but it could always cut out at any time.

So, I guess either I return to Sealed Lead Acid, go compact AGM, or get another 4.5 lb Shorai and then take good care of it.

First world problems.
 

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    78.7 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:

Monachopsis

Member

This battery is a agm, the one im going for once I get some job stuff sorted. I did some math on it, it should crank fine during the summer and winter. It's quite a weight increase but its the lightest reliable battery I found that isnt lithium. If you want to go smaller I would recommend buying a jumper pack like I have and then maybe going for the 11. We are using the 11lb er in the racecar for school and its a trooper so I trust them as of now.
 

Roreri

Active member

This battery is a agm, the one im going for once I get some job stuff sorted. I did some math on it, it should crank fine during the summer and winter. It's quite a weight increase but its the lightest reliable battery I found that isnt lithium. If you want to go smaller I would recommend buying a jumper pack like I have and then maybe going for the 11. We are using the 11lb er in the racecar for school and its a trooper so I trust them as of now.
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on that Braille. We'll see! I didn't want to risk it on the 11 lb battery. Too much battery drama to date.
 
Keep us posted. I think I've considered getting a Braille (or similar) battery for multiple cars going all the way back to my st165. I don't think I ever did get one for it, but I did relocate to the hatch...but really can't remember what the battery actually was. But that's neither here nor there.

Fast forward almost 20 years, and I'm thinking about grabbing one like you got for my '02 GT-S. The zzt23_ Celicas have the battery terminals right beside where any aftermarket strut braces go, which has always made me nervous, so I figured I may get one of these - saving some weight and adding clearance for installation of a Beatrush front strut tower brace to match the one I have in the rear. As I recall, in addition to being shorter in the first place, AGM batteries can also be mounted horizontally if necessary. So no issues with clearance, Clarence.

The car isn't driven much. (about 7k miles total in the 2 1/2 years I've had it)
 
Top