Which fuel pump is required for 350ish AWHP?

The supra pump is significantly quieter and less prone to manufacture defects that shorten the life or make it super loud. I would suggest sourcing one if you can. It seems fine with e-85. I think I have had this same fuel pump for like 15 years. Plus it's rated for more than the rattlebro.
 

Tippo

Well-known member
The supra pump is significantly quieter and less prone to manufacture defects that shorten the life or make it super loud. I would suggest sourcing one if you can. It seems fine with e-85. I think I have had this same fuel pump for like 15 years. Plus it's rated for more than the rattlebro.
Seconded. Also the Supra HPFP is a Denso (Toyota spec) so it's almost certainly going to be more reliable. However, they seem to be getting more and more difficult to find. I see ONE model of the DENSO 9510014 but some people are saying it's not Denso.


Either way, if you can source one, that's my recommendation too.
 

awdmofo

Member
Seconded. Also the Supra HPFP is a Denso (Toyota spec) so it's almost certainly going to be more reliable. However, they seem to be getting more and more difficult to find. I see ONE model of the DENSO 9510014 but some people are saying it's not Denso.


Either way, if you can source one, that's my recommendation too.
Yea, the amazon site says that part is coming from china, doesn't sound very JDM or OEM. Also... "This item cannot be shipped to your selected delivery location. Please choose a different delivery location." came up with my address in california, so can't even buy it if i wanted to try it.

Anyone find anything else more reliable than the 255? Honestly noise isn't going to be a problem, since this car will be 100 gutted, I have no headliner, no glove box, no carpet, no rear seats, no side panels and nothing in the trunk. Not even sure if I want 2 or 4 speakers for the radio, I removed the A/C compressor and evap core, I guess i'll leave the heater on but thats it. Going to be a full race to start, rally down the line once I can get a new 205 engine and rally suspension.

Found this one on Fleabay... https://www.ebay.com/itm/3142958593...BixRS6mF1Fif5/qZPAn1CG5vUQ==|tkp:BFBMtK7H3oxj

This one says its a used one from a TT supra... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1454789942...XtwZGf3OrU1Xl2OFakWCtm73w=|tkp:Bk9SR7iux96MYw
 
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awdmofo

Member
This guy got back to me on his TT pump, says he's had it a few years in a supra. He got back to me via ebay and showed me he has 3 supras, some crazy builds and really cool cars. He upgraded his fuel system so I believe him that the pump is a few years old, and I got it for $150 shipped! Should do the trick for now.
 

Tippo

Well-known member
This guy got back to me on his TT pump, says he's had it a few years in a supra. He got back to me via ebay and showed me he has 3 supras, some crazy builds and really cool cars. He upgraded his fuel system so I believe him that the pump is a few years old, and I got it for $150 shipped! Should do the trick for now.
nice, can't go wrong with that.
 

awdmofo

Member
So I reached out to Aaron at ATS, looks like I should be good for their ported fuel rail and upgraded FPR with my simple setup before requiring an EMS. The idea is to run an upgraded CT20B (from ATS), TT pump, FPR, ATS rail, ATS cam gears, stock intercooler, my clean and flow tested stock 440cc injectors all at stock boost levels to make sure it runs. Then, once I past smog and get the registration done, I can throw a 3" DP, exhaust, 205 WTA IC and get it tuned. With the stock head/bottom end rebuild and MLS HG I should be able to push 14-15psi and get some decent numbers.
 

Gert

Active member
IMHO, for your plans, the stock rail is fine. But 440 cc injectors is not too much. I run 550 injectors on the stock rail, but modified to dual feed and an adjustable pressure regulator.

Didn't know ATS did sell an upgraded CT20B. I have the CT27 from them and a lot of trouble with it.
My engine is having an ported head, 264° cams and the engine was flowing this much that boost was not controlable with the CT27.
We had to remove the turbo to port the wastegate to be able to control boost at decent levels.
And a few monts later, the bearings off the turbo burnt. I had to rebuilt the turbo over here and saw with my own eyes during disassembling how bad this CT27 was build.
Aftersales from Aaron was too bad to mention. Bragged about bad timing and other useless stuff.
Hope you have more luck with him.
 

awdmofo

Member
IMHO, for your plans, the stock rail is fine. But 440 cc injectors is not too much. I run 550 injectors on the stock rail, but modified to dual feed and an adjustable pressure regulator.

Didn't know ATS did sell an upgraded CT20B. I have the CT27 from them and a lot of trouble with it.
My engine is having an ported head, 264° cams and the engine was flowing this much that boost was not controlable with the CT27.
We had to remove the turbo to port the wastegate to be able to control boost at decent levels.
And a few monts later, the bearings off the turbo burnt. I had to rebuilt the turbo over here and saw with my own eyes during disassembling how bad this CT27 was build.
Aftersales from Aaron was too bad to mention. Bragged about bad timing and other useless stuff.
Hope you have more luck with him.
Well, not sure if they sell 20B's upgraded off the shelf but I was going to have them clean/rebuild my stock one but Aaron mentioned he could put a better compressor wheel in it and basically make it better than stock. I haven't heard of anyone having issues with CT27's from them but haven't been very active on this board until about 7 years ago when I got this project car. From 2005 until like 2016 I was out of the car world due to work/school/life. Sucks you had issues with yours, do they not have any warranty on their work?

I was thinking about getting 550's but I thought for my mild build it would be overkill. Plus, I got my stock 440's clean and flow tested from RC engineering for like $120 IIRC, and their report showed them all flowing at 449cc. So I figured with a healthy set of injectors, mod'ed fuel rail & FPR and the TT supra pump I could reach around 300bhp with the right turbo/bolt ons with tuning. I'm more worried about getting better brakes/suspension and dropping weight than making more HP right now. I just really don't want to have to tare into the engine once its installed and running, so trying to get all the odd's and ends finished before I try and get it back on the road.
 

grip-addict

Active member
There's quite a few people who have had issues with the ct27. There are also a lot of people who have had success. The difference is that those with issues have had minimal or no support from the seller. I know personally someone who had issues with the wastegate getting stuck open and ats kept blaming timing.

Spend your money where you like but make sure you are going in wide-eyed first.

440's can definitely get you safely to 300 bhp. If you want that at the wheels though, you are going to need upgrade your fuel system.
 

awdmofo

Member
There's quite a few people who have had issues with the ct27. There are also a lot of people who have had success. The difference is that those with issues have had minimal or no support from the seller. I know personally someone who had issues with the wastegate getting stuck open and ats kept blaming timing.

Spend your money where you like but make sure you are going in wide-eyed first.

440's can definitely get you safely to 300 bhp. If you want that at the wheels though, you are going to need upgrade your fuel system.
See, I knew someone would have more background on it than me. But doesn't KO racing and other shops do a "CT27" ish upgrade to the the stock turbos? Is the WG sticking an issue with not trimming certain area's, or an actual failure of the WG? I'm by no means a trained mechanic, but not sure how timing could be the cause of a WG failing.

Yep, trying to go in wide-eyed for everything I do in life, including the car. Yes, 300bhp is the range I'm looking for with the 440's, I'm not delusional in thinking I could get much more than that with 440s, just hoping others have reached that with a similar setup. Also, curious which EMS I should be shopping around for. I'm moving back home to Orange county CA, so i guess its important to find out what AWD tuners in socal are familiar with. I keep hearing Link as a popular option.

IT SHOWED UP! the used TT pump came in today. Since it's raining I think i'll wait on sanding/painting the engine bay today and see how hard it is to drop the fuel tank and dump out that 7+ year old fuel. The fuel sock looks very clean, wonder if I should buy a new one.
 

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grip-addict

Active member
The best advice I have on the topic is to pick the EMS that your tuner prefers.
I got the experience the negative side of that first hand. I have a friend that lives on the other side of the country that was going to tune my car as long as I got it running on a haltech. No sweat I say, I buy the stuff and start wiring it in.
Then COVID happened and I had to start shopping locally for someone to tune this setup that I had already invested substantial cash into.
It was really frustrating and took quite a long time to be in a place I was happy with ( read: years).

You want a setup whoever is inputting the data knows how that ECU will interpret it. Not only will it save you Dyno time and frustration, but you will also have a local resource that you can ask questions to in case you want to add new features or something isn't running right.
 

Gert

Active member
I'm by no means a trained mechanic, but not sure how timing could be the cause of a WG failing.
It does not, but that is how ATS is reacting if something is not going right: pointing to something useless just to skip after sales. Very bad.

In the beginning I had an upgraded CT26 from Performance Techniques and that worked fine.
There was an company in the US who could upgrade the stock ECU with an G-Force chip, what means: better ignition and raised boost cut.
Installed an ST205 intake cam, Bosch fuel pump, free flowing exhaust, G-Force and HKS boost controller and drove several years without problems at around 0,9 bar.
But I do not think she hit 300 hp.

Later on, I fried an piston with an highspeed run at 1,1 bar.
Than I rebuilded the engine, with an Autronic EMS, 264° cams, cam gear, water injection, flowed head and manifolds, same upgraded turbo as before, 550 injectors and pushed 282 hp at 1,1 bar.
(*edit*: btw, this was with the 550's at 85% duty cycle, not much more to gain.)

This was an very solid setup and drove from 2002 till 2018 without any problems untill the T-vis messed up, you can read that in my topic:
 
Their customer service is horrible. You can hardly throw money at them. You ask them 3 questions in an email and get 1 half heartedly answered. Too cool for all of us and way too knowledgeable to bother answering questions. Apparently not interested in growing their business or client base. Strike me as the kind of person you would ask what shoes they have they are nice and they would just laugh at you for being interested because they already know what's good and your a dipshit.
 

Tippo

Well-known member
I paid ATS for an ECU masters ECU with a full tune and I have yet to hear from them almost a year later about the tune - lol. Aaron and Scott are knowledgeable but ultra busy.
 

grip-addict

Active member
They should be able to get you a base tune to get you started. Have you been able to wire in the ECU and all the extra bits yet?
 

Tippo

Well-known member
They should be able to get you a base tune to get you started. Have you been able to wire in the ECU and all the extra bits yet?
i started but switched back since i needed the car to... you know... drive. when i get the tune date i'll start the xfer. car is garaged for the winter anyways. i plan on doing this some time in march or april.
 
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