1990 Alltrac Wont Start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vray2tz ... zPfyUsuUY0

My neighbors Alltrac is having issues and doesnt want to start
Car specs: http://www.akilla.net/185/
Has new: Plugs, Wires, Distributor Cap, Distributor Rotor
Injectors were cleaned and tested Fresh tank of premium gas

Figured a car needs 3 Things to run (Air, Fuel, Spark) It cranks over Gets Spark (You can see it ark to the strut bar and on a spare old spark plug I attached to the cylinder 1 plug wire) Gets Fuel Pressure (Fuel Pump is working) Gets Signal to Injectors (Noid Tester attached to Cylinder 1 injector wire) Gets Signals to the ECU (Reads Throttle Position, & RPM) Gets Good Compression (Test Numbers Shown too! In order Cylinder 1, 2, 3, & 4)

2/13 towed the car to my house for better access

2/20 Checked the mechanical timing (crank pulley/cam gears) head and block appear to be in sync.
Fuel Pressure gauge pins itself at 47psi at the fuel rail when pump is running.
Pulled the spark plugs again. It gets spark but they are not getting saturated with fuel.
(Car has high impedance injectors, the injector resistor pack was deleted/bypassed)

2/21 injectors are getting 12v,
car cranked over for and coughed like it wanted to start for a second, but doesnt.

Engine:
2nd Gen 3S-GTE
3 Angle Valve Job
JE 9:1 0.020” Over Forged Pistons
ARP Head Studs
ARP Rod Bolts
Toyota Team Europe 1.4mm Head Gasket
ST205 Water Air Intercooler
https://www.alltrac.net/tuning/intercooler.html
TRD Radiator Cap
Hydra Nemesis Engine Management System
KO Racing Street Brawler T3/T4 46-Trim Turbo Kit
KO Racing Fuel Rail
Spec Lightweight Flywheel
Spec Stage 3 Clutch and Pressure Plate
TiAL Sport 38mm Wastegate
TiAL Sport Blow Off Valve
880cc Precision injectors
Summit Fuel Pressure Gauge
Walbro HP 255lph fuel pump
Custom 3in Exhaust By KO Racing
3in Magnaflow Resonator
3in Vibrant Exhaust

Suspension Drivetrain:
Whiteline Front Strut Bar
Whiteline Rear Sway Bar
Tein SS Coilovers
Super Pro Front Swaybar Bushings
Super Pro Rear Bushings
Mario Solid Rear Diff Mount
RC VLSD Rear Differential

Interior:
Short Shifter Kit
Recaro Reclinable Seats
Wedge Engineering Seat Sliders/Rails

Why aren't the fuel injectors firing? I tested it at the harness with a noid tester (in the past), and it seems to get a signal from there.

Id probably start by spraying some ether/starting fluid down the intake and see what happens.

If it doesn't fire over. I would check to make sure you are getting info from the sensors in the ems software.

Bare minimum sensors are going to be

IAT
CAM/CRNK
MAP
O2
TPS
CLT

Are you using a wideband? If so are you getting any afrs when cranking?

What base map are you using?

Have you checked your cam and crank angle offsets are correct?

Find out if the injectors aren't firing or if they're not flowing fuel. Check the schematics and the forum a bit but I have a feeling they could be constant 12V with switched ground. Are they gummed up? What does the EMS software say it's doing? Has it ever run on this setup? Who tuned it originally?

underscore":w2ru773q said:

Find out if the injectors aren't firing or if they're not flowing fuel. Check the schematics and the forum a bit but I have a feeling they could be constant 12V with switched ground. Are they gummed up? What does the EMS software say it's doing? Has it ever run on this setup? Who tuned it originally?

Click to expand...

I ended up talking to my neighbor, and when he got the injectors "cleaned" 11/19/19 all he got was a receipt. He didn't get a sheet showing a bench tested or flowed. I'm guessing that they put them in a cleaning solution or ultrasonic cleaner, but never actually flowed or tested. Not knowing if they actually open or close. Im going to try to power to the injectors directly then if they don't shoot fluid. Then its time to pull them out and test them off the car.

Haven’t tried starting fluid / ether in intake and see what happens on a start attempt yet?

Did it run in it’s current configuration and ceased? Or has it never run in it’s current configuration?

Don't overlook the obvious. Make sure the "ground" wires are all correctly installed. If in doubt, it doesn't hurt to add more.

___Scott___":3o9e9s2i said:

Don't overlook the obvious. Make sure the "ground" wires are all correctly installed. If in doubt, it doesn't hurt to add more.

Click to expand...

The easy cheater method for this is use jumper cables to add some quick temporary grounds to see if that's the problem.

___Scott___":1nhbkjg0 said:

Don't overlook the obvious. Make sure the "ground" wires are all correctly installed. If in doubt, it doesn't hurt to add more.

Click to expand...

I've added 4 additional ground wires from the engine to the chassis last month.

93celicaconv":1nhbkjg0 said:

Haven’t tried starting fluid / ether in intake and see what happens on a start attempt yet?

Did it run in it’s current configuration and ceased? Or has it never run in it’s current configuration?

Click to expand...

It has ran in its current configuration.

underscore":1nhbkjg0 said:

Find out if the injectors aren't firing or if they're not flowing fuel. Check the schematics and the forum a bit but I have a feeling they could be constant 12V with switched ground. Are they gummed up? What does the EMS software say it's doing? Has it ever run on this setup? Who tuned it originally?

Click to expand...

The Hydra Nemesis was Tuned by Kris of KO Racing, and I had him look at the file on the EMS and he said it looks fine, the injectors arent gummed out.

2/24/20 I went to the injector place with the injectors to confirm that they work.
the guy there tested them and I visually saw them working
Questions: (Brought up by the guy at the injector cleaning place.)
They may be getting 12 when ignition is powered "on" but when the car cranks over, there may be a drop in voltage or amps that wont let the high impedance injectors open/close. All the signals are there, but it might be getting a drop in power when the car cranks over.

What could cause this to happen? Ive added additional grounds, where could the voltage drop come from?
Car cranks over, sparkplugs get spark, injector harness gets signal and power, but may be dropping when cranking, injectors open and close. Cylinder and plugs are dry after cranking.

Has the battery been used in another vehicle or has it been sitting in the Alltrac? Toss in a known good battery form another car or try jumping it but I would think a battery strong enough to crank an engine well would have enough jam to run the injectors.

I checked the schematic to be sure and the injectors are constant 12V with switched grounds. Is that wiring back to the ECU good and are those wires grounding like they should as the engine spins? You could try powering an injector directly while cranking to see if you get a wet plug or a pop.

underscore":30ry055x said:

Has the battery been used in another vehicle or has it been sitting in the Alltrac? Toss in a known good battery form another car or try jumping it but I would think a battery strong enough to crank an engine well would have enough jam to run the injectors.

I checked the schematic to be sure and the injectors are constant 12V with switched grounds. Is that wiring back to the ECU good and are those wires grounding like they should as the engine spins? You could try powering an injector directly while cranking to see if you get a wet plug or a pop.

Click to expand...

When he got the car it didnt come with a battery, I threw in the one from my alltrac, I know its good and works.

Yes the injectors are getting a constant 12V when the key is "ON" ignition. and I know the ecu wiring is good, because it grounds those wires when it cranks (Noid Light flashes as it cranks over)

I just havent tested if it gets the 12V when it cranks or if the voltage drops. Thats my plan to test later this week. Im also planning to jump the injectors when they are back in the car to see it I can get a wet plug.

After all that. Im going to need to figure out what the draw is coming from. If the voltage does drop during the crank cycle.

I had something similar to this and in my case with the fuel pump resistor pack deleted, the previous owner had jumped the FP pins in the relay box on the front passenger side and what happened is the jumper that was in there corroded and would hold back voltage and not actually send fuel even though everything was reading fine. I replaced the jumper and it started right up. Probably a long shot but might be worth the look.

Im not familiar with that EMS however the ones I have used usually you can have a laptop hooked up for realtime data logging and most of the time you can see why its not firing. The file you showed the tuner assuming its just the programming and not the data log may not show whats missing.

originalmystro":1pxfeqex said:

I had something similar to this and in my case with the fuel pump resistor pack deleted, the previous owner had jumped the FP pins in the relay box on the front passenger side and what happened is the jumper that was in there corroded and would hold back voltage and not actually send fuel even though everything was reading fine. I replaced the jumper and it started right up. Probably a long shot but might be worth the look.

Im not familiar with that EMS however the ones I have used usually you can have a laptop hooked up for realtime data logging and most of the time you can see why its not firing. The file you showed the tuner assuming its just the programming and not the data log may not show whats missing.

Click to expand...

The previous owner also jumped the FP to B+ in the Toyota Diagnostic port by the driverside strut/firewall of the car. Ill try to redo the jumper wire

Im not sure if the Hydra Nemesis has a datalog option.

You can check injector open/closing with a mechanics stethoscope. You'll beat a tick-tick-tick even when cranking.

Are you using a stock 2nd gen 3sgte ECU? One of the connector shown in the video is for the AFM. If the ECU is still looking for a signal from the AFM, it won't start when disconnected. The other circular connector next to it is for cruise control.

boogie07":m1b0nfvt said:

Are you using a stock 2nd gen 3sgte ECU? One of the connector shown in the video is for the AFM. If the ECU is still looking for a signal from the AFM, it won't start when disconnected. The other circular connector next to it is for cruise control.

Click to expand...

Except rjpan said it ran in its current configuration. If what you say is the true source, it couldn't have run in its current configuration.

It says it has a hydra nemesis which is a stand alone like a megasquirt or aem. They dont use the AFM. It uses a MAP sensor and runs speed density. It calculates the required fuel based on air pressure, air temp, engine volume, rpm, and injector size.

All of this is what i see from watching youtube video. The plug thats jumped below the battery is where the injector resistor is supposed to be. They installed a relay im assuming to control all four injectors. After cranking pull a spark plug and see if the plugs are wet/smell them to see if injectors are opening. I see the inector test did in the video but i suspect it has something to do with this "fix" of bypassing injector resistor. I had mine go on me and only 3 injectors would work. Possibly check and make sure all cylinders (injectors) are getting power. Check that relay by the battery and the red wire from the positive side of battery which i suspect is going to that relay. Not sure how it was bypassed but i GUARANTEE it was bypassed and the problem has to do with this.