Group A block and rebuild questions

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Group A block and rebuild questions

Postby whitesnake » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:51 am

I have a Carlo Sainz 3SGTE and it has low compression in all four cylinders and I am plaining on pulling the engine for a rebuild.

To start, I have bin searching and have found bits of information on Group A engines and blocks. I have seen the post on the difference between Group A Celica and normal ones, such as the timing belt cooler, and the WTA IC, etc.

I never realized any of the problems the might come up with rebuilding until this post,
I am still a little confused. Is the boar still the same as a normal 2GEN 3SGTE block? Is the stroke the same and just the block is shorter? Would i be better off getting another engine from say a place like

Does this mean that stroking the motor is not an option? What do i have to do for pistons?

Also another thing that has bugged me, can someone explain to me what a short block and a long block is? I have come across talk about it on this site and MR2 OC.

Thanks guy.
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Postby Gary ST165 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:50 pm

The Carlos Sainz (UK & Euro), RC (JDM) and GrpA (Australian market) ST185 all use identical blocks.

The linked thread goes off on a tangent discussing the actual Group A rally car block as used by TTE (Toyota Team Europe) in the World Rally Championship. The TTE group A competition block is 3mm lower and uses custom pistons. Hence differs from what is found on the homogolation road cars that we drive :)

i'm guessing the TTE blocks ran bespoke piston and/or rods.

The CS block has the same 86mm piston bore and stroke? (iirc) from factory as per all ST165/ST185/ST205/SW20 3sgte blocks.

Once the block is over-bored to remove scuff marks and ovality, enables the use all the off the shelf 3sgte pistons and rods from JE, CP, Wiseco, Ross, Mahle, Wossner, Arias, Crower, Eagle, etc etc etc (too many to mention, er forgotten :P )

If you wish to stroke your motor then custom rods and pistons may be required depending on which route you follow.
>> MR2 forums are a great source of info on this subject eg: 5sfe block + 3sgte cylinder head = 5sgte 2.2 litre stroker etc etc

The Toyota EPC (electronic part catalogue) refers to the "short block assembly" as follows:

piston rings
connecting rods
big end shell bearings
crank shaft
mains shell bearings
thrust bearings
ST165 turbo 4WD
ST185 GT-FOUR RC Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 825•5000
ST185 turbo 4WD Carlos Sainz Limited Edition 2541•5000

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Postby hacker_720 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:21 pm

I have a stroker sitting in my garage... I don't really know if I want to sell it. I really think it made a big differance with the low end, but maybe that was just me. I just needs a head gasket and a couple other gaskets and your good to go... I wouldn't want less than $1200 for the longblock (complete block + complete head, basicaly no turbo) .... I dunno, maybe you should just buy my whole project for like $7000.00. Nothing is really for sale, but as time goes on I really don't have any time to work on it, let me know.
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