MR2 better drag car than Alltrac?

L

lumbercis

Moderator
I don't expect a definitive answer to this, but would just like to spark some discussion of the merits/disadvantages of the alltrac as a drag car. Do you think the lighter weight and less drivetrain loss of the mr2 trumps the traction advantage of the alltrac? What is the best way to set up an alltrac for drags in order to emphasize it's strengths?

Related discussion: Stock turbo record for mr2's (which is decently documented) is 12.641. Previous but more well-documented record was 12.76.
CT20b record is 11.852
http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/drag.html

For St185's stock CT-26 record seems to be Conny Ruuth's at 13.692. Disturbingly, John Stokes' JDM-swapped half-trac is actually the fastest St18x on the stock turbo (assuming it's not a gen 3 swap). Yes, that's right, a half-trac actually holds the stock CT-26 record at 13.512. :oops:

Les Koncyzk has the Ct20b record with his 205-swapped ST185 at 12.906.

http://www.gtfour.ca/race.html

So the question is, are we doomed to always be 1 second behind our two-seater brethren? Or have we yet to hit our potential?

J.
 
C

Conan

New member
I think you have answered your own question - weight and drivetrain. When slicks come into play there's little or no benefit from 4WD. There are videos of 400+ HP GT4s vs MR2s, and I haven't seen a GT4 gain more than half a car length on the launch. After that weight and power take over.
 
T

TomsGT4

New member
I'd like to start seeing some Alltrac times from the CT-27 ATS sells.
That, boost, fuel sys & a FMIC or good flowing shielded top mount I'd predict low 13's, maybe even high 12's.

But yeah, the MR2 has advantages to dragging, but you ever sat in one doing 140mph? You almost shit your pants.
In the Alltrac it feels more like crusing speed.
 
alltracshoak

alltracshoak

Active member
TomsGT4":10luyi7x said:
I'd like to start seeing some Alltrac times from the CT-27 ATS sells.
That, boost, fuel sys & a FMIC or good flowing shielded top mount I'd predict low 13's, maybe even high 12's.

But yeah, the MR2 has advantages to dragging, but you ever sat in one doing 140mph? You almost shit your pants.
In the Alltrac it feels more like crusing speed.
Click to expand...
i heard it was like flying or driving a flying saucer.
 
L

lumbercis

Moderator
Hey Tom,
Go to the drag strip and set the CT27 record! Although it seems like the CT27 should probably be grouped as "upgraded ct-26," in which case you have your work cut out for you: Klas Johansson went 12.577 on a ct-26-50trim in his St205! Fastest in a 185 was Simon Dawes 13.002 on a "Stage 2" CT-26 (I think Fensport sells these).

Anyway, Another question I have is about 60ft times. The best Mr2 drivers lay down some ridiculously low 60ft's. Average is 1.7-1.8, with the best hitting 1.4's. Although we don't have much alltrac data, 1.7-1.8 is about as fast as we get. In doing a little research on some DSM boards, I also heard people saying 1.7 was a "fast" 60ft for Talon's/Laser's (BTW, anyone know of a DSM quarter mile registry?)

But shouldn't AWD have an inherent advantage in 60ft times, having better traction? Or am I misunderstanding how 60ft times are generated? Is weight again the killer here? Hypotheically, if you had two equal weight cars, same driver, one RWD, one AWD, which should get the better 60ft?

J.
 
M

Maloy

New member
lumbercis":3vj7jcbp said:
Hey Tom,
Go to the drag strip and set the CT27 record! Although it seems like the CT27 should probably be grouped as "upgraded ct-26," in which case you have your work cut out for you: Klas Johansson went 12.577 on a ct-26-50trim in his St205! Fastest in a 185 was Simon Dawes 13.002 on a "Stage 2" CT-26 (I think Fensport sells these).

Anyway, Another question I have is about 60ft times. The best Mr2 drivers lay down some ridiculously low 60ft's. Average is 1.7-1.8, with the best hitting 1.4's. Although we don't have much alltrac data, 1.7-1.8 is about as fast as we get. In doing a little research on some DSM boards, I also heard people saying 1.7 was a "fast" 60ft for Talon's/Laser's (BTW, anyone know of a DSM quarter mile registry?)

But shouldn't AWD have an inherent advantage in 60ft times, having better traction? Or am I misunderstanding how 60ft times are generated? Is weight again the killer here? Hypotheically, if you had two equal weight cars, same driver, one RWD, one AWD, which should get the better 60ft?

J.
Click to expand...

I would say the awd one, but the awd is what makes the all-trac weigh so much.
 
M

Mafix

New member
simple math...you would need several hundred horsepower more than an mr2 to beat it drag racing.
 
T

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
Mafix":369ruslw said:
simple math...you would need several hundred horsepower more than an mr2 to beat it drag racing.
Click to expand...

exactly. but this would be setting aside AWD. but a power:weight ratio is a good baseline for starting these calculations.
 
K

Klas

New member
My alltrac is a st165 not a st205 as chris put in the worldrace.
What we alltrac owners need is to get rid of wight by simply put in lexan windows and put on fiberglass hood and front fenders. That´s what I´m gonna do.
 
T

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
Klas":27waehmh said:
My alltrac is a st165 not a st205 as chris put in the worldrace.
What we alltrac owners need is to get rid of wight by simply put in lexan windows and put on fiberglass hood and front fenders. That´s what I´m gonna do.
Click to expand...

is your car already not street legal?
 
S

sleeper

New member
it seems like EVERYTHING is leagal in sweden... :wink: (i need to move 100miles east.. :D )

klas: what have you done to your car? do you have some pictures of it?

if you have can you e-mail me?

aml15@netcom.no
 
M

Maloy

New member
Are you putting a lexan windshield in? I know of someone around seattle that has lexan in their trac but not on the windshield...i think thats the only window thats illegal to use lexan.
 
K

Klas

New member
no, the windshield has to be glass but all the other windows can be lexan.
My mods so far: Eagle rods, JE pistons, ported head,intake manifold and exhust manifold, front mounted intercooler, 2.5" pressure tubes, ct26 turbo upgrade, home made 3"downpipe and exhust system, trd sinter clutch, running about 22psi.

All the rest is stock, cams, valves, valvesprings, ecu, injectors, fuelpump, headgasket. But this will change soon :D
 
T

toayoztan

Moderator
Here in Oklahoma, the same. Glass windshield, but everything else can be lexan. However, i'm unsure if the front passenger has to be glass also or not. But in any case, lexan rear window hatch will help us reduce some good weight. Along with carbon fiber hood, aluminum prop shaft (i don't know much about this one), lighter fenders, rear carbon fiber hatch, etc. But when it comes down to it, we're just going to weight a lot guys. AWD tranny, with AWD "stuff" for the rear, we can't shave that part of the weight. And it's THOSE parts which is adding a lot to our heavy weight.

Bryan
 
G

gearhead313

New member
as far as comparing alltrac's to dsm's...


people have gone 9's on the stock turbo in dsm's. the dsm following is nothing short of psychotic.
 
T

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
Maloy":i295gv7l said:
Are you putting a lexan windshield in? I know of someone around seattle that has lexan in their trac but not on the windshield...i think thats the only window thats illegal to use lexan.
Click to expand...

this seems great to research. too bad it scratches like hell, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top