ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

General Chat

ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:04 am

Hi guys,

I have a good question for the top knowledge toyo masters out there.

I have been trying to hunt down the full curb weight (wet or dry) of a 180 series FWD celica, (known as the "ST" or "1.6 St-i) COUPE NOT HATCH.


I am getting very conflicting information, and can't seem to figure out why US weights are so much higher.

I get 2,500 lbs for an ST COUPE.

There is no way that motorized headlights and 5 lugs makes the car so heavy. My 1996 Corolla DX fully power optioned, and with OBD2/airbags, weighs 2,400.

On euro sites, the 1.6 ST-i COUPE (ST in states) is only 2,200 lbs kerb weight. This sounds more realistic for the tiny car, even minus bitch pillow, crash supports, and any other non US requirement, it cannot account for 300 lbs.


So long story short, does anyone have a stripped down(no power functions) ST COUPE (5spd preffered) that they can corner weigh or even stick on a truck scale?

I think US factory weights are not accounting for COUPEs, and are giving the weight of Sunroof hatchbacks.

I might just test drive a local ad to the truck stop LOL.

Thanks for any insight.
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
CloudStrife
Newbie
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 pm

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am

Look into this guys posts.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8622

He swapped a v6, but if he went with the aluminum block its likely similar weight.

All 5th gen celicas are heavy. Lots of metal, and over built.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10467
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CloudStrife » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 am

Thanks for the reply.

Hmm.. must be a lot of chassis bracing!

Great thread, but way to heavy for FF.

Still would like to see someone weigh a 1.6.

5th gens are beast! SW20s are pretty light in comparison.
CloudStrife
Newbie
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 pm

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby 93celicaconv » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 pm

My 1992 Celica sales brochure, for ST, says 2,646 lbs for the 5-speed manual, and 2,690 lbs for the 4-speed automatic.
93celicaconv
Club Member
 
Posts: 426
Images: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:08 am

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby underscore » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:57 am

I can't imagine any 5th gen being able to weigh only 2200lbs from factory. I know the turbo engine, AWD system, etc all add weight but that would make an ST185 weigh nearly as much as an AT180 plus half of another AT180.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4321
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby 93celicaconv » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:51 pm

underscore wrote:I can't imagine any 5th gen being able to weigh only 2200lbs from factory. I know the turbo engine, AWD system, etc all add weight but that would make an ST185 weigh nearly as much as an AT180 plus half of another AT180.

Underscore, you are correct, that's because there weren't any. Don't know where CloudStrife is getting his information from. The view below is from a Euro site. Curb (kerb for Euro) says 2645.55 lbs (1200 kg), which is within 0.45 lbs of the US spec (US spec just rounded up to nearest pound, which is 2646 lbs).
Attachments
Euro 1990 Celica 1.6 STi Specs.jpg
93celicaconv
Club Member
 
Posts: 426
Images: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:08 am

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CloudStrife » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 pm

I've been in the JDM game for a long time, and I can absolutely say for certain that a ST trimmed STRIPPED WITH NO OPTIONS T180 does NOT weigh 2,646 lbs. That is insane. That's the weight of some Type M R32 Skylines. Just look at the weight for an 7AFE ST200, which we all know are around 2400, wet, and they don't even conform to Japanese Insurance Tax Liabilities.

The fact that a UK site gives that weight is also extremely unbelievable, as E/A/NZ/JDM specs were always lighter in the 80's/90s.

So logically, that information can't be correct.

However, the 2,200 kerb weight I quoted was a dry weight I found out, referenced on:
https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs ... 6-STi.html
https://www.cars-data.com/en/toyota-cel ... pecs/48063

Which both have a very consistent and accurate weight description for chassis (from my experience).

But even taking that into account, I cross-referenced a weight that I knew prior (E100 Optioned Sedan), which matched USDM weight measurements (albeit slightly lighter @2333lbs):
https://www.cars-data.com/en/toyota-cor ... pecs/48366.
*Matches Cross-reference, even for shi**y Edmunds:
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/corolla/ ... res-specs/

and again, proved accuracy by cross-referencing known weights through "ultimate-specs"
https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs ... n-16i.html

Basically what I am saying is that even if these are dry weight measurements, the ratios, or increasing/decreasing proportionality are consistent across these sites, so they are verified based on that accuracy alone, even before comparing a known USDM weight.

From my experience with Pre-OBDII chassis, the data that is referenced (online), or archived, was scant, and usually only recorded data on the most popular, or highest trim (in this case GT/GT-S/Alltrac). The same goes for 86s, old celicas, etc. etc. Also, the USDM weights don't seem to even acknowledge the existence of a coupe, and probably also lists all weight including a sunroof. Sunroof and hatch add a lot of weight.

My closing argument would be check out the kerb weight of a fully optioned E100 sedan (Jspec):
https://www.beforward.jp/toyota/corolla ... id/625071/
980KG !! 2,160lbs.
Even though this is Jspec, with about 50-100 lbs of safety/chassis stripping (100lb is being generous).
That is a 4 door, OBD 2, power lock/window/steering chassis with STEEL wheels and 4 pillard windows.

And mind you, that is the actual weight of the vehicle which has to be accurate for shipping purposes (weight rating changes based on vehicle selection on site).

So.. Anyone have that stock ST trim corner weight????? :D

BTW love you guys for engaging seriously into this.
CloudStrife
Newbie
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 pm

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby underscore » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:46 am

If that's how light an ST can supposedly be, what does a 185 really weigh? I have a very hard time believing a hatch, driveshaft, diff and a couple of electric motors add 50% to the weight of a vehicle so either the 185 is listed heavy or the ST is listed light. Hell even my GTS feels like a heavy car and it just has a hatch and a slightly larger motor than an ST coupe.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4321
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CMS-GT4 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:51 pm

No one has a stock St weight here. Just the link I posted is the closest you will find on this site.
celicatech.com will be your best chance. The st was often not to choice when people raced, so you will not see many other people corner weighing the car. The gts was more popular, and in the past, those were often weighted in the 2800lbs range and the lightest I saw was one totally stripped sub 2400lbs.

I have corned weighted my 185 and it was around 3280 with some minor weight reduction. The lightest stock 185 is the rally edition and it was a stripped narrow body that came in around 2900lbs and fully loaded USDM alltracs have been weighed as much as 3500lbs. There were over a dozen trim variations of the 18x celica and difference depending on country destination. You will not find a consistent set of data on this because of that, in addition to the car being before the real boom of the net.
I have a Japanese publication and the lightest 18x chassis it lists is 1160kg or 2557lbs. That is not a st model but an SR st182 model. I do not see ST listed as a Japanese option.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10467
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:45 pm

Thanks CMS, very interesting information. And yes I agree with you about the scarcity of data before the Informational Superhighway boom haha.

I think the main issue is that sunroof, hatch, options, etc. are not accounted for in factory wet/dry weights. Also don't forget drum brakes, 4-lug wheels, and other small items that add up. The other issue is that there is no standardization for weight measurements. If all Toyota weights were wet, and all NHTSA weights were dry, it would give much more consistent answers.

I will admit I had no idea 16x/18x chassis were so hefty.

Something interesting I learned today, as I was reviewing on Florida DMV titles, is we have a slot listed as "WT-L-BHP".

Now I was assuming this was always GVWL, or maybe something for truckers. Then I started looking at the acronym and started wondering.. Weight, Litre, Brake/Bi-Horsepower? I did some looking on the internet, which revealed a lot of big rig questions, but I think I figured out It's a placeholder for either Weight, "L", or Brake Horsepower. I.E. based on the vehicle type (passenger, light duty, utility, commercial, etc.), you gain one or multiple data entries. And passenger vehicles, would only receive a weight rating.

Then I realised (since we have all passenger vehicles) that all the numbers recorded in this slot might be curb weight. Now who measures this, when, or where local DMV gets this info I have no idea.

Here's what I got:
(Title weights)
2017 4Runner: 4237
1995 Acura Integra GSR: 2595
1996 Toyota Corolla (Base): 2288
1986 Toyota Corolla GT-S (Hatch, No Sunroof): 2500

Now cross referencing the listed curb weights for the vehicle on the net, they all pretty much matched up. GSR matched exactly, Corolla matched almost exact, 4runner was about 164 pounds under, and the AE86 was 100 pounds more than expected. Also to note, the corolla was shipped to Texas, and they might have different ways of listed factory weights, and might list with passenger, with fluids, etc. etc.

Now these weight measurements could also very. For example Toyota might have done wet measurements in the 80's, switched to dry in the 90's, Honda measured them before shipping across the pacific, etc. etc.

So, as mentioned, I agree with CMS in that early 90's/late 80's chassis just have scant info. So that would seem to make the title "weight" pretty close to being consistent, even for the 86 (which is probably more along the lines of 2,400, as mines the heaviest of the bunch, minus sunroof).

So I guess just to further the interest, does anyone have this block on their state title? For consistency purposes, I'd like to see a Florida titled celica, especially if it's the stripped down model.
CloudStrife
Newbie
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 pm

Re: ST/Base model trim kerb/curb weight

Postby CloudStrife » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:28 pm

Hope nobody hates me yet. I don't even own a 16x/18x LOL.
This and the MR2 forums are just my favorite. Remind me of the Miata.net forums.

So me and the girlfriend were out of town traveling through nowhere florida (between Tampa and Gains), and we passed a lot of truck stops on the way.

We decided to weigh the 4Runner for shits and giggles. Very interesting experience taking the passenger car to the trucker area on the CAT scale. Costs about 11 bucks, probably could've just asked for the weight instead of an official printout but no biggie.

The listed curb weight with both passengers in the vehicle was 4,760.
Curb weight is listed at 4,400-4,700 for 2017 4Runners.
I was 203.4, and she is 147.6 (Don't tell anyone).
After converting gallons of fluid based on half a tank to lbs (was very fun and interesting learning), we had 71 lbs of gas.
My GF also had a couple of options installed at the receiving port from Japan including running boards (should weigh about 25-50 lbs).
We also had some items in the back hatch (I'd say 30 lbs, being generous on the light side).

So for an initial weight of 4,760.
We had an estimated curb weight of 4,400-4,700.
After subtracting additional weight, not including half tank of gas:
4760
-203.4
-147.6
-30
-25
4,354

Not too bad, as quoted 4400 online. We have the SR5, or lowest and lightest trim with only 2WD and no extra options. Also, I'm not sure how accurate trucker scales are to the tens place.

Just a fun experiment. Also, 4Runners are tanks! LOL.

I also had a concern thrown into the theory of possible curb weight slot on the FL title. I asked someone to show me theirs on a 94 Celica ST, which listed about 3,780. I think that's the GVWL. So, not a complete disproving of the curb weight hypothesis, if you look at it in terms of being grossly incorrect, or correct. As long as it's consistent.

So still on a hunt to test drive a 5th gen ST to the truck stop lol. Or maybe to a shop to "check" and they can weigh it on an alignment rack? Not sure if racks do that.

Theory!
CloudStrife
Newbie
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 pm


Return to Club Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron