Hi im new and have a question

I have always loved Gt-Fours and always wanted an st205, the closest ive ever been is owning a 6gc (FF 135Hp FTL) and im looking into getting another toyota because i just love the company. I have owned a 95 lincoln, 99 celica (still own) and an 87 Supra turbo which i dont have anymore because the cops took it (long story but nothing reckless or bad on my part just got screwed by the guy who sold it to me valuable lesson about buyer beware) anyways im looking into getting another turbo car and i have narrowed it down to a 91 Mr2 Turbo or a well any St 185. I really want AWD turbo but while lurking these forums i found that some people have said that these cars are not very reliable vs. people on the Mr2 forums have said that their cars are, how is that possible arent both cars using a 2nd gen 3sgte why would one be less reliable than the other? My budget is 5 to 6 grand and i wonder should i stay away from the alltrac and get the mr2? I really wouldnt wanna spend more time fixing it than having fun in it can someone enlighten me on the subject?

From my experience, the more you start modding an awd turbo car, especially the older ones, the more they break. I have seen it in all kinds of cars, not just all tracs, so I wouldnt say they are any less reliable than any other turbocharged car to my knowledge, but with good upkeep and some tlc, you can have a reliable all trac, you just need to give it the proper attention and show it some love. Which may include some work on the car, and every now and then some play time in the snow/mud

i used to have a 91 mr2 turbo and now i currently have a 90 celica turbo alltrac... both are reliable to me... i didnt do major mods. both are reliable to me as other toyota. it just cost more for maintnance...

Always remember; "reliable" is subjective.

One person can own a car that vomits a cloud of blue smoke upon startup, and as long as it runs, gets them from point A to point B and back to A, it's reliable. (Yes, I've seen this)

Another person can look at the AFR gauge, notice they're running a 12.8 AFR instead of their normal 12.4, and shit a brick sideways thinking they need to call a tow truck, drag the thing back home and rebuild the motor because it's "unreliable". (Yes, I've seen this too)

Alltracs and MR2's alike have the same level of Toyota's reknowned overengineering put into them. Thus they're capable of putting up with more neglect and abuse than is typical. Some have been dealt more of that than others...so today half of the actual reliability is based on the car's history. Overall, your best choice for reliable, regardless of model, is one that's stock or very close to stock, and has at least a decade's worth of service receipts proving the maintenance performed on it. Highly tuned ones are like actual race cars...powerful, but high-strung and prone to heavy maintenance schedules. Neglected stock ones just mean you need to make up for all those years of missed maintenance.

These cars reward proper care very well. They'll put up with some neglect, but after a while it starts to wear them down just like any other car.

For 5-6000 your choices might turn up a bit limited for 185's and SW20s as they can fetch higher. But with patience and shrewd dealings you can find yourself a nice one in that range. 165's are much more affordable, but less desirable due to the boxier body lines and that they're often in more dire need of maintenance than their younger 185 sisters. As a suggestion though, I'd seriously consider getting another grand or so for post-purchase maintenance...better to be prepared than to find a car, buy it and be disappointed by a gremlin emerging at exactly the wrong moment.

Dracov":1ygu5gix said:

Always remember; "reliable" is subjective.

One person can own a car that vomits a cloud of blue smoke upon startup, and as long as it runs, gets them from point A to point B and back to A, it's reliable. (Yes, I've seen this)

Another person can look at the AFR gauge, notice they're running a 12.8 AFR instead of their normal 12.4, and shit a brick sideways thinking they need to call a tow truck, drag the thing back home and rebuild the motor because it's "unreliable". (Yes, I've seen this too)

Alltracs and MR2's alike have the same level of Toyota's reknowned overengineering put into them. Thus they're capable of putting up with more neglect and abuse than is typical. Some have been dealt more of that than others...so today half of the actual reliability is based on the car's history. Overall, your best choice for reliable, regardless of model, is one that's stock or very close to stock, and has at least a decade's worth of service receipts proving the maintenance performed on it. Highly tuned ones are like actual race cars...powerful, but high-strung and prone to heavy maintenance schedules. Neglected stock ones just mean you need to make up for all those years of missed maintenance.

These cars reward proper care very well. They'll put up with some neglect, but after a while it starts to wear them down just like any other car.

For 5-6000 your choices might turn up a bit limited for 185's and SW20s as they can fetch higher. But with patience and shrewd dealings you can find yourself a nice one in that range. 165's are much more affordable, but less desirable due to the boxier body lines and that they're often in more dire need of maintenance than their younger 185 sisters. As a suggestion though, I'd seriously consider getting another grand or so for post-purchase maintenance...better to be prepared than to find a car, buy it and be disappointed by a gremlin emerging at exactly the wrong moment.

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That is some excellent advice along with the advice all of you have given me, i do have a DD so a lil bit of downtime is ok i just dont want to spend more time fixing it than driving it i guess you could say that is my point of view of reliability. For instance i spent more time working on the supra and fixing problems the previous owner left to it then i did driving it (only drove it twice to check for problems) replaced the turbo and IC did basic stuff oil, plugs, wires, coolant. Hell there was even oil in the spark plugs, i guess you could say i would like just find out if they have better upside than down when it comes to my view on reliability, like i learned that DSM's are bottom chain when it comes to stuff breaking going out and the design of things (except the 6 bolt motor) and i know about certain things on the 3s such as the HFH, but im not the most mechanically inclined (not as much as you guys anyway) but i am learning by doing things myself and building my tool arsenal whenever i get the chance, but yeah fun > downtime

any older car is going to have some sort of problem whether big or small & it can be compounded by previous neglect as you found out on your supra.

whether you decide to get an MR2 or Alltrac, hold out for one that is in good working condition - ask the current owner plenty of questions, think about it & ask more questions. if you don't understand something ask here.
don't let your emotions (fun factor) take over your brain & buy the first one you see/drive that might not be the best either body or engine wise.

Welcome btw.

If you want reliable stick to the 6gc or any 5sfe because you wont be pushing them as much as your two above choices. You should also consider what are you considering in this purchase? speed? track? 1/4mile? hp? show off? rarity? because any of this will greatly effect your reliability ie. the more you want to mod, the less overall reliable it is give or take a few instances.

I have had experiences with both but when it comes down to it the trac is still candy to my eyes 8) just personal preferences. I will tell you that either way you've picked two great communities that you will learn to appreciate quickly.

shoteh":3auro9fq said:

Welcome btw.

If you want reliable stick to the 6gc or any 5sfe because you wont be pushing them as much as your two above choices. You should also consider what are you considering in this purchase? speed? track? 1/4mile? hp? show off? rarity? because any of this will greatly effect your reliability ie. the more you want to mod, the less overall reliable it is give or take a few instances.

I have had experiences with both but when it comes down to it the trac is still candy to my eyes 8) just personal preferences. I will tell you that either way you've picked two great communities that you will learn to appreciate quickly.

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Thanks for the welcome and yes i do understand that reliability goes down some with turbo but toyota did design the 3sgte to last up till 200xxx miles i believe and man lol i been trying to escape the 5sfe and its dang narrow valves and crappy flow lol. Also i love turbo and just FI in general really, I understand and know if the great amount of work that goes into upkeep and maintenance of a FI vehicle just because of the supra and my other buddies cars (mazdaspeed mx5 and gst),I guess im trying to say im looking for toyota FI reliability not just reliability in general. Its true on what your saying about the communities tho i think toyota people are some of the most chill people in the world, but i find this forum the friendliest, you guys are like never at eachothers throats, I know Dsm talk is like that and hell i have even seen ive been flamed for posts on 6gc and supramania, I think here and newcelica are the friendliest forums. Lastly both cars have pros and cons over one another for what i want in the looks catagory both cars are beautiful but the mr2 has sex appeal with its sleek body design, meaning ill get looks and props from people who dont know about cars and assume it is a ferrari vs gaining respect for the alltracs rarity and having a turbo awd celica from people who do know about cars in the racing community. Another thing which i cannot decide on is i will be doing both autox and drag both events being held at the stadium over here where the trac with its weight disadvantage might not do so well but the awd will help (while costing me some clutches) the mr2 has the advantage here i believe being so much lighter than the trac but ive seen a few over here and they dont look to hot. Saftey is another concern this is a car for me and my gf to enjoy so i believe awd is the best bet plus it isnt to wise to drive the 2 in the rain or hit potholes with it due to its snap oversteer and spinning problems, ::sigh: what to pick maby i should just flip a coin i think i would be happier with a trac but the 2 might be just as good.

gtfourmansd":2aj8eumx said:

For instance i spent more time working on the supra and fixing problems the previous owner left to it then i did driving it...

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That's a 3rd gen Supra for you. They reward good maintenance, but they are utterly merciless when punishing neglect. Toyota's 4-bangers aren't so mean spirited generally.

Yeah that was a general pita to work on busted knuckles and everything, which is ok because i dont mind it. I did settle on the alltrac guys so all i have to do is find one i like and it looks like ill be here to stay unless i cant find one with the lack of 185's recently i might have to settle for a 165 with a 185 swap which i believe is legal here . I was initally worried about the trac not being good for a straight line but ive been doing some reading on here and i think ill be just fine with a TD06 20g and supporting mods as far as power is concerned (with all preventative and scheduled maintenance of course) and i would like to say im looking forward to making new friends and getting some good advice on here from you guys and im looking foward to my stay.

Well, i just bought my 90 Gt4 a few months back and haven't regretted it.

darthripley":13fdhgvw said:

hold out for one that is in good working condition - ask the current owner plenty of questions, think about it & ask more questions. if you don't understand something ask here.
don't let your emotions (fun factor) take over your brain & buy the first one you see/drive that might not be the best either body or engine wise.

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+1! If you want to see someone who has done this, http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20570

Cliffnotes: I paid 2000 for the car, dumped ~2000 into a new motor and clutch, and still have probably 5-10000 to spend on body work.

Know what trouble spots to look for and what questions to ask!

~bloodMoney