Lets talk clutches and everything drivetrain related
Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:10 am
Is it correct that the 205's came factory with the torsen type rear differential? Or do they also come with a viscous unit like the 185?
Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:45 am
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:07 am
Wait a second, so did the 185's also come with a Torsen rear differential?
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:30 am
Yes and no. RC/CS/GA came standard, some regular gtfour's also recieved them, but how to determine if an alltrac did is the hard part.
There is a number used to identify the gearbox, but it seems to only be related to CS models.
Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:54 am
Okay, I figured not very many normal 185's would have got the torsen. The torsen and the VC have the same case design I'm assuming then?
Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:13 am
yup. gotta crack it open to find out.
Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:08 pm
92 All-Trac wrote:Okay, I figured not very many normal 185's would have got the torsen. The torsen and the VC have the same case design I'm assuming then?
Externally they are both identical. Its almost like an insert that makes the difference. It would be open, not VC. There was only 1 diff. offered, and that was torsen. VC is in the center diff.
Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:05 pm
There was a post on this a while back. I believe Gary actually had good figures on it. Was it mentioned that all (or most) 93's came with torsen?
Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:44 pm
I have heard from several sources that all '93's came with a TORSEN rear dif. This is NOT confirmed by me - just rumour. I had the car up on the weekend and did the suggested tests...
The "spin one wheel and see if the other spins the same or opp direction" test revealed that the other wheel spun in the opposite direction. Suggesting either open or TORSEN. Inconclusive.
Then, with the car idling in gear and the hubs spinning - I tried to stop one rear hub - there was substantial resistance to this. I COULD do it - but it was fighting me something feirce.
Doing the same at the front (which we KNOW is an open dif in a stock config) yeilded VERY different results - I could easily stop the spinning hub with minimal effort. The other hub kept spinning happily.
This suggests to me that "something" special is happening in the rear dif. Hopefully a TORSEN!
Anecdotal, split-traction launches also sure suggest that it's an LSD.
Just my two cents.
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:42 am
I think you have some good points. However my old powertrains teacher at UTI explained that if you spin a VC LSD the other wheel should spin the same direction, but if the clutch plates are wearing out it will spiin the opposite direction.
Wouldn't a torsen spin the same direction like a posi since it locks whenever ANY slippage is detected? It is purely mechanical and reacts to direct torque.
There's got to be some way to test them and find out which is different. When I spin one rear wheel the other spins the opposite direction. This would mean my clutch plates are wearing out, but my rear end definately transfers power 100% how it should. I can see the evidense when I launch.
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:01 am
This is one thats interested me - i have severe resistance on the rear spinning hub too, but mine is 99.9% certain an original '90 ATA diff.
Never spins only one rear wheel even on a beach.
Torsens, clutched, viscous all behave in odd ways and ive spent ages trying to find out how to work it out - id love to know.
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:36 am
AFAIK in Europe all ST185 have REAR Torsen. I have had some ST185 up to now and also opened the diffs cause I was interested in what I have and there was one everywhere!
The CS models have it for sure. They have the same diff than ST205.
Centre is everywhere Viscous. Every gearbox has the same lever to convert into FWD, open diff and viscous. (ST165/185/185CS/205)
The ST165 has got an open rear diff. The housing looks different to the Torsen one although the mounting is the same!
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:47 am
That might explain why - mine is a UK model. I'll have to take the back off and look some time but right now its not leaking and seems to be performing ok so I'll leave it lol
Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:09 pm
There has to be some sort of pattern.
you could start something like this up.
Model year Front Diff. Rear Diff.
ST165 1988 Open Open
if you dont know dont guess or you could mess up the results.
Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:04 pm
st185-sainz wrote:The ST165 has got an open rear diff. The housing looks different to the Torsen one although the mounting is the same!
I was under the impression that the 165 had a torsen rear.
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