Final Drive upgrades

DudeMan

New member
Ah, I was thinking higher number = higher FD.. My bad.

How hard is it to swap the final drive on our trannies?

I know you need to swap the output shaft, ring gear and oil pump gear but I've never cracked a tranny open before so I'm not sure. Does the whole thing have to come apart?

Anything else have to be replaced while doing this like bearings or synchros?
 

st185-sainz

New member
I just made a traction diagram of the CS ratios josh wrote in one of the first posts. Maybe someone is interested in...
 

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Redrkt01

New member
I'd like to point out that USDM ST165/ST185 trannies came equipped with 3.933 FDs. The only Celica models in North America with a 4.285 are swaps with JDM or Euro trannys. So for most guys, swapping to a 4.285 unit or an aftermarket unit is all the more important. Just make sure you understand you that will affect your gas mileage.
 

Redrkt01

New member
DudeMan":1m07oh6y said:
Ah, I was thinking higher number = higher FD.. My bad.

How hard is it to swap the final drive on our trannies?

I know you need to swap the output shaft, ring gear and oil pump gear but I've never cracked a tranny open before so I'm not sure. Does the whole thing have to come apart?

Anything else have to be replaced while doing this like bearings or synchros?

Swap out whatever needs fixing. Got bad gears or synchros? Do it now because you'll have to tear apart to the whole box to get to the diff.
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
Redrkt01":5fmos3s1 said:
I'd like to point out that USDM ST165/ST185 trannies came equipped with 3.933 FDs. The only Celica models in North America with a 4.285 are swaps with JDM or Euro trannys. So for most guys, swapping to a 4.285 unit or an aftermarket unit is all the more important. Just make sure you understand you that will affect your gas mileage.

This is not correct. EVERY alltrac/gtfour came with the 4.285 with exception to RC, Carlos Sainz, Group A wich came with the 3.933 final drive. You can verify this by checking the part numbers via the EPC or toyodiy database, or the russian EPC. Japanese final drives verified via celica hyper rev, but also by the sources listed above.
All gear ratios for all models have been posted in the faq.

I have an RC gearbox in my car, and the 4th and 5th gears are without a doubt higher than what was in my alltrac.

There was a lot of mixed info about this back in the day on the forums and web, so I spent a lot of time gathering the correct data for our faq.
The only gearbox ratios that has not be confirmed by toyota sources is the japanese only rally edition close rato box. I may have a file somewhere with its part numbers, but I need to dig it up.
 

Redrkt01

New member
Josh, I don't know about the EPCs but I do know that toyodiy can't be relied upon since there are all kinds of holes in their database. I use it for reference only.

The best way to go about determining what you have is 1) check your BGB. My 1989 Celica BGB says the E50F1 comes with a 3.933 and 2) check your speedo ring color through the speedo hole in the case. If it is whitish/yellowish it is a 3.933. If it is blue it is a 4.285. 3) if you have your tranny open you can count the teeth on the ring gear and pinion gear. It will either be 60/14 or 59/15.

Just curious, where did you see that all the export (non-JDM) FDs were the same as the JDM 4.285s?
 

Redrkt01

New member
phattyduck":1o9m5wsz said:
I must be the only one that wants the 3.625:1 final drive out of the '92-'94 V6 MT Camry trans, eh?

-Charlie

Is that the E53....I've noticed that strange FD before. It would me great for DD gas mileage, but if you want it sporty you'd have to swap the gearing.
 

phattyduck

New member
Redrkt01":2gbz1kjk said:
phattyduck":2gbz1kjk said:
I must be the only one that wants the 3.625:1 final drive out of the '92-'94 V6 MT Camry trans, eh?

-Charlie

Is that the E53....I've noticed that strange FD before. It would me great for DD gas mileage, but if you want it sporty you'd have to swap the gearing.
It is an E-series trans, but I don't know the specific number. E53 sounds right, as the earlier Camry V6 MT ('89-'91) is an E52. The MR2 guys use the gears from it and throw out the final drive. You can put together a good autocross trans that way. For some reason, Toyota put numerically high 1-5 gears in it and the numerically low final drive. It evens out to be similar to a normal E-series trans gearing.

-Charlie
 

Redrkt01

New member
I believe the E52 (and I know the E56) used a 3.933. I think the E53 sticks out in my mind as the only E sereis I've ever seen in the with a 3.xxx other than 3.933. I don't really know for sure, but that's my hunch since I'm more familiar with the E52/E56.
 

BADNEWS

Member
I'm in the middle of making my own frankenstein tranny.

I have an ST185RC tranny and bought a used 95 MR2 Tranny

I'm going to use the MR2 1st and 2nd Gears. With the RC 3rd, 4th and 5th. While using the MR2's 4.285 final drive.
The other nice thing is the synchros from a 93+ MR-2 tranny are a newer/better design than the RC ones on 2nd and 3rd gear. (Just a guess but I bet they are the same as a ST205 Tranny) So I purchased a new 3rd gear from the last month they made alltracs in the USA so I can use the newer 93+ mr-2 synchro on 3rd gear. I also bought 1st, 2nd and 4th gear synchros new too to make sure it shifts as smooth as possible.

So the gear ratios will be this when it's done

1st-3.231
2nd-1.913
3rd-1.333
4th-.972
5th-.731
final-4.285

I currently have a 9000rpm redline and 245/40 17 tires so that puts a max speed of:

1st-48 mph
2nd-81 mph (gear starts @5350 rpm)
3rd-116 mph (gear starts @6250 rpm)
4th-159 mph (gear starts @6550 rpm)
5th-211 mph (gear starts @6750 rpm)

Here were my speeds with the stock ST185RC ratios and 3.933 final:

1st-47 mph
2nd-82 mph (gear starts @5100rpm)
3rd-126 mph (gear starts @5800rpm)
4th-173 mph (gear starts @6550rpm)
5th-230 mph (gear starts @6750rpm)

Here were my speeds with the stock ST205 ratios:
1st-46 mph
2nd-81 mph (gear starts @5100rpm)
3rd-123 mph (gear starts @5950rpm)
4th-168 mph (gear starts @6600rpm)
5th-211 mph (gear starts @7150rpm)

I feel this is the best possible setup for my car using stock toyota parts in my tranny.
 

Pavlik185

New member
'm in the middle of making my own frankenstein tranny.

I have an ST185RC tranny and bought a used 95 MR2 Tranny

I'm going to use the MR2 1st and 2nd Gears. With the RC 3rd, 4th and 5th. While using the MR2's 4.285 final drive.
The other nice thing is the synchros from a 93+ MR-2 tranny are a newer/better design than the RC ones on 2nd and 3rd gear. (Just a guess but I bet they are the same as a ST205 Tranny) So I purchased a new 3rd gear from the last month they made alltracs in the USA so I can use the newer 93+ mr-2 synchro on 3rd gear. I also bought 1st, 2nd and 4th gear synchros new too to make sure it shifts as smooth as possible.

Nice upgrade! So why you put final drive from mr2? 185RC is shorter.
What king of mr2 tranny did you use? E150?
 

polm

New member
So, a lower final drive (higher number) would net a quicker acceleration, but a lower top speed, correct? This would also mean that you would be cruising at higher rpm? It seems that there aren't much lower final drives available on the market though. Logically, you could get the same result as a long gear set with a low FD by using a short gear set with a high FD right? Are there any drop in upgrades for faster gear changing (faster acceleration too) known today? i.e st205 transmission?
Thanks
Pierre
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
There is the one phoenix FD from japan that is drop in. The other options are to use a camry alltrac or rav4 4wd gearbox. Need some mods to fit. There are other factors. It would increase acceleration to a certain point, but when power becomes so high a taller gearset is needed. Also consider on a race course, you will have to change gears more often. I currently run the rc box and a taller tire, and the combo gives me much less gear changes in autox but I have to stay on the gas or I loose power. I will likely stay with a similar tire size, but go back to a stock FD.
 

polm

New member
CMS-GT4":1cg986k3 said:
There is the one phoenix FD from japan that is drop in. The other options are to use a camry alltrac or rav4 4wd gearbox. Need some mods to fit. There are other factors. It would increase acceleration to a certain point, but when power becomes so high a taller gearset is needed. Also consider on a race course, you will have to change gears more often. I currently run the rc box and a taller tire, and the combo gives me much less gear changes in autox but I have to stay on the gas or I loose power. I will likely stay with a similar tire size, but go back to a stock FD.
Good to know. Thanks for the info.
 

Pavlik185

New member
Just found phoenix gear set from m2 turbo:

http://japex.ru/?ylot=r98457791

1st gear phoenix - 2.750 stock 3.230
2nd gear phoenix - 1.765 stock 1,913
3rd gear phoenix - 1.273 stock 1,258
4th gear phoenix - 1.000 stock 0,918
5th gear phoenix - 0.821 stock 0,731
FD: 4.285

Why they use 1st and 2nd gear longer than stock?
Now when i`m looking on it set, it seems not really good for E150F upgrade for drag, correctly? :S
 
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