Front LSD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Flying Bajan
- Start date
Fox 21 Alpha
New member
I hate gear oil with a fucking religious passion but if you guys let me know what needs torn apart and send some pics of what exactly I can probably ship it out. If people wanna chip on the shipping that'd be cool or a discount on the diff maybe?
athousandleaves
New member
This is pretty exciting but I would recommend to anyone that has imported a car or engine & transmission combo that they should really take theirs apart and be sure you don't already have the TRD diff in your car!
Someone I know 'discovered' one in his transmission that he got from an importer here, I was verrrrrrry jealous!
Someone I know 'discovered' one in his transmission that he got from an importer here, I was verrrrrrry jealous!
temperacerguy
New member
I actually have everything already torn apart and sitting in boxes. and could ship as early as tomorrow.
I have no problem sending it to them, but the damn thing is heavy and will cost a fortune to ship.
I have also given parts up for product development, and many times the OEM part is destroyed/lost/damaged during the development process. I am willing to loan them the center/front diff assembly, but I would like to have it back (in the same condition) within a reasonable time-frame, say 2-3 months (on their dime). Or if it needs to be damaged/destroyed/modified as part of R&D or the unit is lost, I would like it replaced with one of their finished units.
If they never develop the LSD after looking at it, I need to have it returned (on their dime)
I am also willing to do test fitting, to make sure it fits back in the case when completed.
Let me know via PMs as I don't cruise this board,
I have no problem sending it to them, but the damn thing is heavy and will cost a fortune to ship.
I have also given parts up for product development, and many times the OEM part is destroyed/lost/damaged during the development process. I am willing to loan them the center/front diff assembly, but I would like to have it back (in the same condition) within a reasonable time-frame, say 2-3 months (on their dime). Or if it needs to be damaged/destroyed/modified as part of R&D or the unit is lost, I would like it replaced with one of their finished units.
If they never develop the LSD after looking at it, I need to have it returned (on their dime)
I am also willing to do test fitting, to make sure it fits back in the case when completed.
Let me know via PMs as I don't cruise this board,
darthripley
Moderator
I'm interested, but have a few questions.
So would this aid in getting more power down to the front wheels? And in turn add more front end grip?
Personally I prefer a hint of oversteer, but the way our Alltrac is set up now it's fairly neutral with a hint of front understeer ... would this diff help tone that down?
I've had helical (aka Torsen) diff in the rear & I didn't feel it make much of a difference at all.
The grip levels really didn't change & I couldn't take corners any faster or different than before with the stock open diff.
Yet other reviews I had read before I got it, people talked about how awesome it was, what a difference it made for them, but to say I was underwhelmed is an understatement.
What I really don't care for about Torsens is how they behave like an open diff when not engaged.
For all of these reasons I got a clutch type TRD Rear LSD & that made a huge difference in grip, handling, turn-in and cornering speed. Now -- that part made a difference which in turn made it more noticable that I have a lightweight C/F driveshaft.
I read some of the earlier comments on what it would do, but honestly will it really make a difference where you would say "Wow! This makes the car really handle so much better! It was a total pain to install but SO worth it!"
Honestly for me it's not the cash for the part that bothers me but going through the pain of installing it (I know this will be a huge pain b/c it's an Alltrac after all) & then have it not really make a huge impact on the overall feel/handling of the car.
So would this aid in getting more power down to the front wheels? And in turn add more front end grip?
Personally I prefer a hint of oversteer, but the way our Alltrac is set up now it's fairly neutral with a hint of front understeer ... would this diff help tone that down?
I've had helical (aka Torsen) diff in the rear & I didn't feel it make much of a difference at all.
The grip levels really didn't change & I couldn't take corners any faster or different than before with the stock open diff.
Yet other reviews I had read before I got it, people talked about how awesome it was, what a difference it made for them, but to say I was underwhelmed is an understatement.
What I really don't care for about Torsens is how they behave like an open diff when not engaged.
For all of these reasons I got a clutch type TRD Rear LSD & that made a huge difference in grip, handling, turn-in and cornering speed. Now -- that part made a difference which in turn made it more noticable that I have a lightweight C/F driveshaft.
I read some of the earlier comments on what it would do, but honestly will it really make a difference where you would say "Wow! This makes the car really handle so much better! It was a total pain to install but SO worth it!"
Honestly for me it's not the cash for the part that bothers me but going through the pain of installing it (I know this will be a huge pain b/c it's an Alltrac after all) & then have it not really make a huge impact on the overall feel/handling of the car.
temperacerguy
New member
M Factory,
I E-mailed you this morning. I am awaiting a response with an address so I can send you the Dif assembly pictured.
Darth, a clutch style diff locks the wheels together with a torque split slip. They will CAUSE over/understeer by forcing the wheels to turn at the same speed, thus one wheel is forced to loose traction as the diff will not let the wheels spin at the different rotations they need.
A torsion LSD will apply the proper torque to the proper wheels so they will have the maximum transfer of torque to the proper wheels.
My theory is to get all the torque you can to the wheels, then tune for over/understeer with suspension settings.
I E-mailed you this morning. I am awaiting a response with an address so I can send you the Dif assembly pictured.
Darth, a clutch style diff locks the wheels together with a torque split slip. They will CAUSE over/understeer by forcing the wheels to turn at the same speed, thus one wheel is forced to loose traction as the diff will not let the wheels spin at the different rotations they need.
A torsion LSD will apply the proper torque to the proper wheels so they will have the maximum transfer of torque to the proper wheels.
My theory is to get all the torque you can to the wheels, then tune for over/understeer with suspension settings.
darthripley
Moderator
I know how the different LSD's work b/c I've had them in the Alltrac.
My real question is how much of a difference in power delivery & handling is a front LSD going to make?
Like I said I just don't want to deal with a super pain in the ass install only to find no difference in handling afterwards.
My real question is how much of a difference in power delivery & handling is a front LSD going to make?
Like I said I just don't want to deal with a super pain in the ass install only to find no difference in handling afterwards.
CMS-GT4
Active member
If you have the chance, go test drive a evo 7, then an evo 8. They from open to helical in the front.darthripley":1nzd9235 said:
From what I have read from the wrx guys going to front torsen.
I know the biggest advantage we should see is corner exit from the readings I have done over the years. Rather than cooking that inside front tire, the car should be distributing power better and you can get on the gas earlier.
EDIT: I have also read you might need to adjust your suspension to accomodate the new lsd. Rear sways may not need to be on full hard anymore etc... Also, there is specific driving methods to get the most out of the car. Its the same thing I learned from the gt4 yahoo boards. Slow in fast out. Even with my open front, I found my times much improved at autox when practicing this rather than trying to come in too hot all the time.
CMS-GT4
Active member
I dod have a question for MFactory though. What kind of split will be built into this lsd? What kind of maximum power split can we expect? 80:20?
I am also curious what you can do with the center diff. It uses a viscous locker. Is there anything you can produce to modify their powersplit? Say 60:40.
I am also curious what you can do with the center diff. It uses a viscous locker. Is there anything you can produce to modify their powersplit? Say 60:40.
darthripley
Moderator
Thanks for the info coldiron.
Joe works with someone who has an Evo ... I wanna say it's a 7, could be an 8 but I'm not sure.
Dealerships around here wouldn't let you drive one when they were brand new unless you were going to buy the silly thing so we haven't gotten to drive one yet.
I'll see if I can locate some for sale used that we can see about getting a quick test drive in.
Interesting on the rear sway bar setting.
I'm going to have to think about this as we will only be autocrossing occassionally - same thing with track day events.
I honestly feel I can be more competitive in the AW11 even in just for fun local events & track.
Joe works with someone who has an Evo ... I wanna say it's a 7, could be an 8 but I'm not sure.
Dealerships around here wouldn't let you drive one when they were brand new unless you were going to buy the silly thing so we haven't gotten to drive one yet.
I'll see if I can locate some for sale used that we can see about getting a quick test drive in.
Interesting on the rear sway bar setting.
I'm going to have to think about this as we will only be autocrossing occassionally - same thing with track day events.
I honestly feel I can be more competitive in the AW11 even in just for fun local events & track.
CMS-GT4
Active member
Yeah, I am not sure what kind of settings we might need to make. We might be able to drop the LSD and go, but our suspension settings may not have taken front LSD into account. One thing to note, the evo8 has a center ACD, but its a locker type. From what I read its goal is to try and maintain the 50:50 split like our viscous locker does but its likely more effective at it. Its a shame Martin sold his car. A lack of a front LSD is sort of the precursor to his selling.
I myself am planning a decent bit of autox and mountain driving.
I myself am planning a decent bit of autox and mountain driving.
temperacerguy
New member
I own an Evo 9MR also (and a number of other cars) The evo from the factory has oversteer at very low speeds, and understeer at high speeds. This has been tuned out of mine with proper suspension settings and components and now I can make the car over/understeer at will with throttle/brake/steering input. However you cannot compare the Evo to the celica as far as handling go. The evo's come from the factory with MUCH better suspension design and components than any of the celicas. (wider tires, lighter/stronger components, bilstein shocks etc.)
Get the power to the ground.... then use suspension to dial in handling.
No response back from M factory to my E-mails. If they are reading this, they can PM me here with the address to send the unit into.
Get the power to the ground.... then use suspension to dial in handling.
No response back from M factory to my E-mails. If they are reading this, they can PM me here with the address to send the unit into.
CMS-GT4
Active member
Here are part numbers for three models to compare.
205
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1995_T ... _4301.html
185
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1992_T ... _4301.html
185rc
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1992_T ... _4301.html
Hyperrev lists the front lsd combo from trd is listed for both the 185 and 205.
205
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1995_T ... _4301.html
185
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1992_T ... _4301.html
185rc
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1992_T ... _4301.html
Hyperrev lists the front lsd combo from trd is listed for both the 185 and 205.
temperacerguy
New member
Still no response from MFactory
temperacerguy
New member
darthripley":p8gex029 said:
Unless it's a grey market import, it's an 8. only the Evo 8-10 were available in the US as a US import
CMS-GT4
Active member
So the first evo8s in the US had no front LSD. The EVO8 MR got the helical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi ... _Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi ... _Evolution
darthripley
Moderator
ok, must be an 8 then - thanks for the clarification guys.
i haven't paid a whole lot of attention the the Evo gens at all really
i haven't paid a whole lot of attention the the Evo gens at all really
temperacerguy
New member
"Spoke" (via E-mail) with Stephen at M Factory early this morning (like 2-3am CA time). The Diff will be shipped to M Factory on Monday, they should have it Wednesday-Thursday at the latest.
I have offered to do the testing for fitment and the like for M factory, and Stephen stated that it would be up to you guys if you wanted me to do it....
I have the tools, the time, the experience and the know how to do this... so it's up to you guys if you want me to do the fitment testing.
I have offered to do the testing for fitment and the like for M factory, and Stephen stated that it would be up to you guys if you wanted me to do it....
I have the tools, the time, the experience and the know how to do this... so it's up to you guys if you want me to do the fitment testing.