KAAZ Front/Center LSD combo. SERIOUS FEELER!!!

Confused myself here - are we looking at plate or torsen diffs from kaaz

I did it. The Rep will send it to Japan to demonstrate the interest this has gained in just 1 short week. Hopefully more people on more forums sign up as well.

This will be a plate type lsd... 1.5 way front diff and 2 way center. KAAZ was the actual manufacturer of the TRD unit everyone wants in their car. There is a post on here that has a completely disassembled TRD unit showing the clutch plates front and center....

This is the best thing since sliced bread for our cars!

Toyota1968":3nrjh23y said:

Confused myself here - are we looking at plate or torsen diffs from kaaz

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Kaaz dont make torsens, they mare plate LSD manufacturers.

Quaife make Torsen/Helical LSD's

So off the shelf Kaaz parts will fit a TRD diff?

According to KAAZ rep, yes. Plus, if diff gets produced, they will offer service parts for at least a few years.... According to what I was told and posted a few pages back.

eric thompson":3oxaqba7 said:

According to KAAZ rep, yes. Plus, if diff gets produced, they will offer service parts for at least a few years.... According to what I was told and posted a few pages back.

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Should put the link to the Google doc on your main post, will make it easier for others to find

mkernz22":1dqzf1f0 said:

eric thompson":1dqzf1f0 said:

According to KAAZ rep, yes. Plus, if diff gets produced, they will offer service parts for at least a few years.... According to what I was told and posted a few pages back.

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Should put the link to the Google doc on your main post, will make it easier for others to find

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Done

just wondering what a 2 way center would cause the car to behave like? I know 2 ways in the rear are more for drifting and are not great for road racing. which is what i want mine for. My assumption would be that it wouldn't make the car squirrely under braking since the front and rear diffs distribute the power they get. The other thing is how will the 2 way affect people who are rallying and want to do hand brake turns. I know that was talked about in the upgraded vicous center thread. (ie if the diff was too stiff you could not use your hand brake any more)

TRDTurko":jxq8028a said:

just wondering what a 2 way center would cause the car to behave like? I know 2 ways in the rear are more for drifting and are not great for road racing. which is what i want mine for. My assumption would be that it wouldn't make the car squirrely under braking since the front and rear diffs distribute the power they get. The other thing is how will the 2 way affect people who are rallying and want to do hand brake turns. I know that was talked about in the upgraded vicous center thread. (ie if the diff was too stiff you could not use your hand brake any more)

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Thats a very good point, since my centre is locked I can't use my handbrake anyway, but the benefit of the extra traction under power and braking exceeds being able to do a handbrake turn anyway.

I wonder if you can specify whether you get a 1, 1.5, or 2way?

I know I had to specify when I ordered my Cusco rear LSD......

I've done some research and every center diff I've seen from KAAZ or CUSCO is a 2way... My guess is that since a 2way works on accel and decel it has to be 2way otherwise the rear diff would be eliminated under deceleration... I could be completely wrong though. As far as ebraking, the center diff has to be disconnected to avoid stalling engine or damaging your driveline... This is done electronically on modern AWD cars... We have to press our clutch pedal to do so...

eric thompson":25uwa5gi said:

I've done some research and every center diff I've seen from KAAZ or CUSCO is a 2way... My guess is that since a 2way works on accel and decel it has to be 2way otherwise the rear diff would be eliminated under deceleration... I could be completely wrong though. As far as ebraking, the center diff has to be disconnected to avoid stalling engine or damaging your driveline... This is done electronically on modern AWD cars... We have to press our clutch pedal to do so...

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I'm cool with a 2way, unless the LSD is hydraulically controlled like the EVO7 and onwards for example, you simply wont be doing handbrake turns.
Clutching it will disconnect the engine so you wont stall, but the rear will still be connected to the front....

I have been rallying on a locked centre diff for many years, I have tried viscous once, and I pulled the damn thing out straight away.

What people need to understand before getting into specifics and theories, is to go fast, you need traction (accel and braking), so anything that slips, will lose traction and therefore less power will make it to the ground, and you can lock up etc etc.
I have been there, I have been rallying in my ST185 since 2003, I have tried a number of things to improve performance, and I keep saying it, but the biggest performance improvement was Locking the centre diff.

Does it make it hard to drive on the public road with a locked centre at normal speeds? Not entirely, only at intersections, maneuvering it in the driveway and such, the tyres scrub a lot, but hey, you cant have everything....
I can put up with all that for the increase in performance.

Does it make it understeer, in some situations yes, but in the fast stuff, no not at all, but the idea in the tight turns is the throw the car in sideways so you 4 wheel drift around the corner using less steering input and more momentum based turning balanced with power of which now I have close to 450hp at 7800rpm...

How will the 2 way LSD be by comparison to a locker? while its at maximum limiting, the diff will slip when it needs to, so I imagine the car will be quicker in the tight stuff, and it will be easier on hairpin turns...

The ST185 Group A cars from 1993 (Castrol livery), had a development with their Xtrac transmissions and diffs, the centre was hydraulically controlled so when the handbrake was applied, it released the the centre so the rear could be used to do handbrake turns...Previously in the repsol ST185 they were viscous, and in the St165 the centre was locked.

At the end of the day, this package will give our GT4's more traction and so better acceleration, more stability in corners under acceleration and braking. The car will be a lot faster and a lot easier to drive by it being more predictable and stable.
You will wear tyres out quicker though, but you would expect that will all the extra traction....

My comments are based on 20 years of rallying and the experience of trying things over the years with my car, I am not theorizing here....

Not a very good video, but the only one I have of a hairpin, so this is with my locked centre, and the cusco 1.5way rear LSD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otjn0e00siA

Such a good thread!

Hi folks,

Having been following the various threads about these units for years, we have been working away to find a solution to the lack of an LSD for the Celica GT4/Alltrac.

We have been in talks with many differential manufacturers ourselves over the years, and communication went stale with almost all. However we have some news which hopefully should be music to some ears!

We have secured an exclusive deal with Quaife Engineering over here in the UK and we have a limited batch of Quaife ATB Front & Centre LSD differentials being manufactured at present . These will be a DIRECT FIT front/centre replacement and will feature a Quaife lifetime warranty like all of their other ATB units. Will can also supply Genuine diff bearings to go with them if needed. Anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of driving with a Quaife ATB, these things are a fantastic piece of kit. Strong, built to last, low maintenance and silent in operation.

These are due to be completed in late March/Early April 2016. I will post up pictures and so on once I have the units in stock, and from that point we can look to sort out any payments and shipping for anyone who is interested and i'll get a proper thread put together.

Costwise, initially looking to cost you guys over in the USA circa $3000USD plus shipping from the UK. Circa £2000GBP (plus VAT if you're in the EU).

Its taken a bloody long time to get here, but finally there will be an option. Looking forward to getting my ST205 apart and trying one of these out for sure.

If anyone has any questions, then please feel free to fire me over a PM or email me direct on mike@tuningdevelopments.co.uk

Many Thanks

Mike

Taking the wind out of my sales(sails) That's a pun

Should start your own thread really....

Some people like me who are using these for motorsport purposes don't want helical (torque sensing) diffs.
They tend to break and the way they perform doesn't suit rally situations in particular.

However they are great for a road car.....

Eric, apologies for jumping onto your thread... I have made several attempts to have Kaaz look at this for me over the last few years, and each time it has gone stale and gotten me nowhere. The post was merely just to let folk know there is a product, in production, and it'll be fantastic

Best of luck with Kaaz, if it falls through then feel free to give me a shout!

Many Thanks

Mike

mike@td.co.uk":1olwizj8 said:

Eric, apologies for jumping onto your thread... I have made several attempts to have Kaaz look at this for me over the last few years, and each time it has gone stale and gotten me nowhere. The post was merely just to let folk know there is a product, in production, and it'll be fantastic

Best of luck with Kaaz, if it falls through then feel free to give me a shout!

Many Thanks

Mike

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I get it. Not sure if a Torsen diff will be ideal for roadracing, especially with the amount of shock through the Diff if a wheel gets lifted off the ground and slams back down on the tarmac or curbing.... Let me know your thoughts.

Have they discussed how many people would need to front the cash to get this made? We appear to have a solid 5 units, with most everyone else being price dependent. I'm ready after Christmas to put some money down on this.

RedCelicaTRD":2yxfa30h said:

Have they discussed how many people would need to front the cash to get this made? We appear to have a solid 5 units, with most everyone else being price dependent. I'm ready after Christmas to put some money down on this.

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Emailed rep at KAAZ again last night and he was following up with JP today with a copy of the most current list. To a degree KAAZ should understand that without an actual price it's very hard for people to commit. I hope they respond with some real info so we can all know what direction to this is going in. I'll update once I know...

Most people who I have had discussions with, are very interested, but unless an estimate is proposed by Kaaz, then it is very hard to unequivocally commit to the numbers which have discussed thus far. With Eric's latest enquiry, hopefully Kaaz will look a bit more seriously and invest a little time/resource to table some options for us all.

For me at least, the money is there, but I'll do my own cost benefit analysis before finalising a commitment to the purchase.