Project CMS

Talk about your project car here

Re: Project CMS

Postby GT4times2 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:07 am

CMS-GT4 wrote:First drag race in the alltrac, and a ride along in a tesla among other show highlights at the Gateways Electro Madness.
My time is on the left.
http://youtu.be/vbLVlog6-F0



What mods do you have? Not bad. (Looking good). Analyzing the time slip. How many runs in total? (Ideally, high 13s, low 14s with a ST205 swap). Close enough. I know you get the itch to go faster after your first run at the track. What's next? 8)
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
Frantz
12 Toyota Sienna LE
12 Toyota Camry SE
90 ST185 (MRP) Gen4
90 ST185 (Gray) Not sure what gen yet.
88 ST165 Gen3-The works
89 ST165 Gen4-on the way
+ Many other projects, under covers....
GT4times2
Established Member
 
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:21 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Project CMS

Postby CMS-GT4 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:53 am

I did two runs. The first was a 15 something. So I improved some. As far as engine goes, its just intake exhaust mbc with 16psi. I think the thing that hurts me is the rc transmission and taller tires. I was still in 3rd gear when I crossed the finish line. I still won't be touching power for a while. I decided I want to drive and enjoy the car some, so no projects that will keep it down during driving season.

When it comes time to do something, the big plan would be an upgraded clutch and a gearbox with a 4.2 final drive. I will have to look at budget, and effort. If I decide to go basic, I would just go forged internals and max out the 205 ecu as much as I safely could. If I go bigger, I am not sure I would even stick with the 3s. I'll never be much into drag racing so most likely I'll be making changes for the sake of powerband if any.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10394
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:43 pm

First Autox on the new setup, and first time getting to drive the car how it was meant in a long time. Once the results are published I will put them on the blog.
https://youtu.be/XDND_7IoPVw
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10394
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby CMS-GT4 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:26 pm

Pics and event results on the blog.
http://cmsgt4.blogspot.com/2015/08/bscc ... autox.html
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10394
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby 88st165 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:11 pm

Good to see you are enjoying the Feal 441s. Looks fun makes me miss autoxing a little. Haven't been since I started doing track days but theyre much harder on your car which is why autox is so nice, plus its cheaper. Maybe one day there should be an alltrac meet/autox event that would be really fun. I used to always do an event at Rantoul airport since it was usually the last event of the year. Not to far from STL but not sure where you are located. Maybe that could be a location some day. Anyway keep up the good work. 8)
Red st165 - Garage Queen turned wannabe track rat
White st165 - slapping back together and hoping for the best
Black st165 - gone
2011 FA5 - Family Truckster
User avatar
88st165
Established Member
 
Posts: 2362
Images: 2
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:09 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Project CMS

Postby CMS-GT4 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Thanks. I am actually happier with them than I expected. I have to stay aware the whole time on the highway since the car is super sharp now. I was afraid I would have a hard time controlling it on the autox, but it felt right at home there.
I am closer to Chicago than stl by another 30 minutes. It looks like its about 3hrs from me. Maybe we can make that a 2016 Chicago meet. I bet Cid, and Greg would come too.
I always tried to organize dragon meets around autox, but sadly egos were at risk and no one else would run with me. I am ok with not winning. It just gives me something to keep striving for. Besides, there is always someone faster. I would love to do some sort of meet with an autox. Godzilla juice ran with me at this event, but in his M3. He did start working on the alltrac again, so there is hope to get him. And Trumanpriest might join us for one this coming month. I was going to run a pdx, but I think I might take it easy an only do autox this year. The lot we ran on has a lot of sediment, so I might get some mudflaps just for autox for the just in case, or at least blue tape behind my wheels.
Hows you cars coming? Did you sort out the engine stuff on the track car?
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10394
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby 88st165 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:58 pm

I feel the same way I am really happy with the Feal 441s. I might even buy a set of gravel spec 441s for my white 165 next year.
I guess I never really realized how far away STL area was. Rantoul seems like it might be a good halfway point between Chicago and STL. Would love to see other alltracs in action as I was always the only one at any events I would attend.
Google maps even shows an autox event at Rantoul haha: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rantoul+Natl+Avn+Center-frank+Elliott+Fld/@40.2985242,-88.1455031,351m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m19!1m16!4m15!1m6!1m2!1s0x880d202766fc7ce7:0x8652b71ea71fadcf!2sRantoul+Natl+Avn+Center-frank+Elliott+Fld,+Rantoul,+IL+61866,+United+States!2m2!1d-88.142389!2d40.293556!1m6!1m2!1s0x87d8b4a9faed8ef9:0xbe39eaca22bbe05b!2sSt+Louis,+MO!2m2!1d-90.1994042!2d38.6270025!3e0!3m1!1s0x880d202766fc7ce7:0x8652b71ea71fadcf

Currently started working on the white 165 again. Just doing an engine reseal since I blew the HG years ago and just now got around to fixing it. Engine will be basically stock for maximum reliability since I drive through very sketchy areas in Chicago to get to work. The red 165 will have to wait until next year unless I miraculously find time for it. Will most likely be a reseal on that engine too keeping it mostly stock except for upgrades to the coolant and oiling system for track reliability. Once I get that running my first goal is to make it to the dragon in that car. I did it in my SI 2 years ago and it was a blast so I really just want to experience it again in my red 165. Just keeping it simple on both cars to maximize up time so I can enjoy them as much as possible.
Red st165 - Garage Queen turned wannabe track rat
White st165 - slapping back together and hoping for the best
Black st165 - gone
2011 FA5 - Family Truckster
User avatar
88st165
Established Member
 
Posts: 2362
Images: 2
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:09 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Project CMS

Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:03 pm

I see some Vettes at that Autox. Yeah, I want to get more alltracs togethers, even if its not racing. I sort of lost ambition organizing meets just because over the past decade I hear a lot of I'm coming, then the day of they vanish. I figure from now one I will just pick a date to go somewhere, and announce. If people come, cool. I want to make a dragon run, but there has been conflict with the family. My wife wants to go to TN when I go, but she doesn't want to ride in the alltrac on an 8hr trip. I think the car is reliable enough now, its just loud, and kind of small for a family to ride in for long trips. I have a trailer in TN I could tow with, but no way to store it up here in STL. I might need to come up with some solution though next year. I have kicked around picking up a cheap car to keep down there to just be my dragon car. I just have not seen the right car come along yet. I would not mind having another 3rd gen celica, or even a fwd celica to keep down there for fun. If you go down again, make sure you also do the skyway. Its less popular, and because of that its more fun. Less traffic, and higher speeds. Its a lot of sweeps along the mountains. Its a pretty good day trip to run the dragon to the skyway and back.
I hear you on the reliability builds. The more research I do, I decided I rather drive my car and enjoy it than keep working on it. For the 4 years I have lived here, I have done less than 1,000 miles in the alltrac. I want to drive it more, so I am canceling big projects. I have been thinking about power and reliability, and I think I may save up to get good internals for the 205 engine, then only run the max boost the stock ecu can handle. I like the idea of starting it when I want to run, and not having to mess with anything.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10394
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby GT4times2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:01 am

CMS-GT4 wrote:I see some Vettes at that Autox. Yeah, I want to get more alltracs togethers, even if its not racing. I sort of lost ambition organizing meets just because over the past decade I hear a lot of I'm coming, then the day of they vanish. I figure from now one I will just pick a date to go somewhere, and announce. If people come, cool. I want to make a dragon run, but there has been conflict with the family. My wife wants to go to TN when I go, but she doesn't want to ride in the alltrac on an 8hr trip. I think the car is reliable enough now, its just loud, and kind of small for a family to ride in for long trips. I have a trailer in TN I could tow with, but no way to store it up here in STL. I might need to come up with some solution though next year. I have kicked around picking up a cheap car to keep down there to just be my dragon car. I just have not seen the right car come along yet. I would not mind having another 3rd gen celica, or even a fwd celica to keep down there for fun. If you go down again, make sure you also do the skyway. Its less popular, and because of that its more fun. Less traffic, and higher speeds. Its a lot of sweeps along the mountains. Its a pretty good day trip to run the dragon to the skyway and back.
I hear you on the reliability builds. The more research I do, I decided I rather drive my car and enjoy it than keep working on it. For the 4 years I have lived here, I have done less than 1,000 miles in the alltrac. I want to drive it more, so I am canceling big projects. I have been thinking about power and reliability, and I think I may save up to get good internals for the 205 engine, then only run the max boost the stock ecu can handle. I like the idea of starting it when I want to run, and not having to mess with anything.


Great ideas altogether. I have been thinking the same things for 2 out of the 3 Alltracs, to keep the mods simple and keep them reliable. Contemplating keeping them at reliable 300whp (very feasible). I'm debating if it's even worth it at those Hp levels. Makes more sense to keep them running than being garage queens that keep breaking. I'm getting too old to be in a garage all day. Either that or sell them all, which I don't want to do now. I may sell the gray ST165 at some point. I have summers off (I'm a teacher- :| ), and this summer I had plans to work on both Celicas, but spent more time traveling and not once touched the cars :( . Sign of things to come, maybe?.. Less time on the cars, more on enjoying this short life. Ironically since work started, I've had a desire to get back into the cars. So these cars need to be reliable and relatively simple to work on. Bolt on mentality kicking in hard for the 4th gen swaps I have. :)

What kind of car were you looking at for TN? A nice RWD car would be interesting. Like an old Starlet or Corolla AE86 (if you want to go old school). or A FWD Celica GTS (6th Gens are going for cheap now, and they're pretty interesting cars. They handle well with minor mods ,and 180hp is not bad. Lighter than the older Celicas) would not be bad either. Or a NA MR2. I've been thinking of one as well, and keep it NA via 3SGE (Very cheap, and simple swap). Anyways, just throwing out ideas.

What kinds of power levels are hoping to get out of your set up, with the stock ECU? (You can always look into the AEM FIC as piggy back for additional tuning flexibility and keep the stock ECU. No need to rewire and deal with full management). Have you dyno'ed the car recently? Just to know where you are, and where you want to go HP wise? The CT20 is a nice turbo, and people get good numbers from them.

Do tell about the Skyway. (I will Google it in a few) I plan on going to TN in a few months (mid October). Not with the Celicas, just a short vacation (thinking along the lines of cabin rental, relaxation, maybe hunting etc, looking at Pigeon Forge).
Frantz
12 Toyota Sienna LE
12 Toyota Camry SE
90 ST185 (MRP) Gen4
90 ST185 (Gray) Not sure what gen yet.
88 ST165 Gen3-The works
89 ST165 Gen4-on the way
+ Many other projects, under covers....
GT4times2
Established Member
 
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:21 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Project CMS

Postby underscore » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:27 am

GT4times2 wrote:A FWD Celica GTS (6th Gens are going for cheap now, and they're pretty interesting cars. They handle well with minor mods ,and 180hp is not bad. Lighter than the older Celicas) would not be bad either.


If you go with a 6th gen GTS I suggest considering a 1MZ/3MZ swap. They're fairly well documented and only require minor fabrication (1 motor mount and 1 cv support) with a bit of wiring, and then you've got a slightly more modern 200+ NA HP that is still reliable and has good parts availability.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3937
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: Project CMS

Postby FC Zach » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:47 am

underscore wrote:
GT4times2 wrote:A FWD Celica GTS (6th Gens are going for cheap now, and they're pretty interesting cars. They handle well with minor mods ,and 180hp is not bad. Lighter than the older Celicas) would not be bad either.


If you go with a 6th gen GTS I suggest considering a 1MZ/3MZ swap. They're fairly well documented and only require minor fabrication (1 motor mount and 1 cv support) with a bit of wiring, and then you've got a slightly more modern 200+ NA HP that is still reliable and has good parts availability.


6th gens didn't have a GTS trim (I don't think) however the GT does have the 5S in it so why not bolt a 3S in it place. . especially if you have one laying around. I loved my 6th gen and regret selling it but due to unfortunate circumstances I had to. If I still had my ST, my plan was to do a 4A-GE 20valve Blacktop which is another great option if you run across an ST for cheap. Only issue with that swap is parts availability. . The 6th gen handles great out of the box as mentioned by GT4times2.

EDIT: I see you're in Canada now, GTS 6th gens were an option there. I guess they still had the 5S in them?
1992 Toyota Celica AllTrac
1987 Mazda RX7 Sport
1979 Yamaha G1A, rotary powered with Sachs KM24
1976 Hercules W2000, oil injected
User avatar
FC Zach
Established Member
 
Posts: 1000
Images: 9
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 7:43 am
Location: Eagleville, TN

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: Project CMS

Postby GT4times2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:37 am

I apologize! I got my math wrong. I meant 7th Gen :doh: .

And, yes 6th Gens are great cars too. In Josh's case, if I went 6th Gen, a 3SGE swap would be my choice vs V6. No mounts to worry about, and wiring is relatively simple. 2nd and 3rd Gen 3SGE motors are great, and relatively cheap from most importers, less crowded engine bays (vs V6), and the list goes on.

I've been thinking about an MR2 with that swap. Too many turbo 4cyl cars in my stable. These are just thoughts at the moment. :twisted: :evil:

But I doubt, he'd want another project, hence the 7th Gen suggestion. Comes with a decent set up. No swaps to worry about, and a good chassis to begin with. Or he can go with an S2000 or Miata for his TN car. Both great cars for those roads.
Frantz
12 Toyota Sienna LE
12 Toyota Camry SE
90 ST185 (MRP) Gen4
90 ST185 (Gray) Not sure what gen yet.
88 ST165 Gen3-The works
89 ST165 Gen4-on the way
+ Many other projects, under covers....
GT4times2
Established Member
 
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:21 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Project CMS

Postby underscore » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:12 pm

7th gens are awesome cars, I just talked my sister in law into buying a GT as her first car and the missus has a Matrix XR (same driveline). After all the research I did into them both, if you have a family you want to bring along I'd honestly buy a Matrix instead for the better rear seat and massive amount of storage space, the XR has the same 1ZZ as the Celica GT and the XRS has the 2ZZ of the GTS with the 6 speed manual. In FWD trim it only weighs 29lbs more than the Celica and the XRS pulled .83 g in a skidpad test, only .03 g less than the Celica GTS.

The S2K and Miata are better cars, but they're only 2 seaters and (at least around here) 2-3x the price of a Celica or Matrix. If you're lucky enough to have a wife that doesn't mind daily driving a manual, get a Matrix XRS, put some slightly better dampers in it (fronts are supposedly identical to a 5th gen Celica, rears I'm not sure), and when you want to take a road trip with the family toss the good tires from your Celica on it (same bolt pattern and offset as our Celica's give or take) and go sling it down backroads.

FC Zach wrote:6th gens didn't have a GTS trim (I don't think) however the GT does have the 5S in it so why not bolt a 3S in it place. . especially if you have one laying around. I loved my 6th gen and regret selling it but due to unfortunate circumstances I had to. If I still had my ST, my plan was to do a 4A-GE 20valve Blacktop which is another great option if you run across an ST for cheap. Only issue with that swap is parts availability. . The 6th gen handles great out of the box as mentioned by GT4times2.

EDIT: I see you're in Canada now, GTS 6th gens were an option there. I guess they still had the 5S in them?


We have a few GTS' up here but they aren't common, I think they're effectively the same as a GT but with every option added or something like that. Only reason I wouldn't do a 3S is you're adding back all the potential headaches of an older turbocharged engine that most of us would be trying to get away from, there's not much point to buying a non-Alltrac just to build most of an Alltrac.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3937
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: Project CMS

Postby GT4times2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:28 pm

underscore wrote:7th gens are awesome cars, I just talked my sister in law into buying a GT as her first car and the missus has a Matrix XR (same driveline). After all the research I did into them both, if you have a family you want to bring along I'd honestly buy a Matrix instead for the better rear seat and massive amount of storage space, the XR has the same 1ZZ as the Celica GT and the XRS has the 2ZZ of the GTS with the 6 speed manual. In FWD trim it only weighs 29lbs more than the Celica and the XRS pulled .83 g in a skidpad test, only .03 g less than the Celica GTS.

The S2K and Miata are better cars, but they're only 2 seaters and (at least around here) 2-3x the price of a Celica or Matrix. If you're lucky enough to have a wife that doesn't mind daily driving a manual, get a Matrix XRS, put some slightly better dampers in it (fronts are supposedly identical to a 5th gen Celica, rears I'm not sure), and when you want to take a road trip with the family toss the good tires from your Celica on it (same bolt pattern and offset as our Celica's give or take) and go sling it down backroads.

FC Zach wrote:6th gens didn't have a GTS trim (I don't think) however the GT does have the 5S in it so why not bolt a 3S in it place. . especially if you have one laying around. I loved my 6th gen and regret selling it but due to unfortunate circumstances I had to. If I still had my ST, my plan was to do a 4A-GE 20valve Blacktop which is another great option if you run across an ST for cheap. Only issue with that swap is parts availability. . The 6th gen handles great out of the box as mentioned by GT4times2.

EDIT: I see you're in Canada now, GTS 6th gens were an option there. I guess they still had the 5S in them?


We have a few GTS' up here but they aren't common, I think they're effectively the same as a GT but with every option added or something like that. Only reason I wouldn't do a 3S is you're adding back all the potential headaches of an older turbocharged engine that most of us would be trying to get away from, there's not much point to buying a non-Alltrac just to build most of an Alltrac.


Agree with everything you said. Speaking of the swap, I was talking about a 3SGE not GTE. They're NA motors, that make between 160-180hp (depending on generation). Or if he wants to pay more, he can get the 3SGE BEAMS :D .

Info here:
http://www.jdmspecengines.com/toyota-en ... 3s-ge.html

I Had a colleague that put one in his 90 Celica GTS years ago. That car gave the Integra GS-Rs and Civics a run for their money. That's the engine Toyota should have brought in the 94-99 Celica GT here (Toyota is short sighted). They're direct swaps. However, I don't think Josh wants to go through another swap, and that's why I suggested the 7th gen GT-S.
Frantz
12 Toyota Sienna LE
12 Toyota Camry SE
90 ST185 (MRP) Gen4
90 ST185 (Gray) Not sure what gen yet.
88 ST165 Gen3-The works
89 ST165 Gen4-on the way
+ Many other projects, under covers....
GT4times2
Established Member
 
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:21 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Project CMS

Postby underscore » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:06 pm

Derp, my bad, I'm so used to 3S always referring to the GTE that I forget about the GE's. I'm not sure how we ended up with the 5SFE economy motor since it was used in so few cars - surely designing and tooling for a new motor that was worse than the one they already made was a waste of time and money. Back in my younger days a BEAMS swap for my 92 GTS was the dream, an older gent that worked around the corner from me has one in his mint 6g, although I don't know what's happened to him or it as I haven't seen it in a while.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3937
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

PreviousNext

Return to My Project

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SAS0662 and 2 guests