165-KISS

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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:45 am

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Today I worked on making a mold to make some carbon door panals. My seats have wide shoulders and barely touch the door panal, these new panals should give me more seat clearance. I'm making the middle flat for door bar clearance come spring when the car gets caged.

I should have both molds finished by next week. I also got the car registered and insured so I can legally take it on the street.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby squarepant5 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:40 am

very interesting, nice to see a completely new approach to the restoration process. don't normally tend to see too many planes in the background either.

thanks for the thread and please continue to update us; looking forward to further developments
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:01 pm

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We converted the car to a manual climate control, it was a bitch. It required buying everything under the dash from a standard st162 I found at the yard. There was also an entire day spent integrating the wiring from 162 to the 165 harness. I'm pretty happy with it. The stock 165 climate control is terrible looking, there's nothing worst than an 80's car trying to be a 90's car. The system is about 4 pounds lighter and a almost 2" recesessed where the a pillar bar will go, come spring Time when the car gets caged.

I also converted the doors to manual roll ups. I doubt there is a full pound saved in this conversion, but once again the roll up switches from the 80's look awful. On my red car I used 162 complete doors to save me from having to weld the holes for the cladding. I'm happy to report that the guts are interchangeable.

While I was messing with the interior harness I also depinned the following:
Antenna
Speakers
Rear wiper
Rear squirter
Door indecators front & rear
And I'm sure I'm missing something.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby 88gt4DE » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:58 am

Now thats something different and a damn good idea ... nice work. stupid auto climate control ...
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1988 ST165 - 78K - Project ---> http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=31483&start=240
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby UtahSleeper » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:35 pm

Good idea on the climate control crap. Any write ups or helpful tips for this change?
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:45 pm

Honestly this was all done from 10pm to 4am, it's a miracle it even ended up working. Originally I intended/hoped to just plug the 162 dash harness into the 165 cabin harness. However there's a few additions in the 165 dash harness like the intercooler ecu & a few other things. We ended up just integrating the climate control into the 165 harness. It's only one plug.

You will need the 162:
Blower box & fan.
Climate control with both sides of the plug
The 162 & 165 dash wiring diagram.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:11 pm

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Some hardware showed up today from Skybolt. I'm going to use these to hold my bumper cover onto my bumper. My car didn't come with bumpers and the rear 162 bumper cover I'm using doesn't fit the 165 bumper bar, & the 162 bumper bar doesn't fit the 165 chassis because of the the fuel tank placement on the 165s. So I'll be building some custom bash bars that should be considerably lighter than the originals. I'll incorporate some tabs to mount this new hardware.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby polm » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:36 pm

That garage is simply amazing lol. I'd love to have that much space to work on cars! Nice pics, nice cars, can't wait to see progress!
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:22 pm

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Cut some carbon for my center console, I'll probably put something in there come spring time, for now it looks a bit more finished. So damn itchy, not looking forward to trimming my door panals.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby MWP » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:24 am

nw94rs wrote:I finished the frp roof........then I saw that crash at pikes peak this year...


What makes you think that a steel roof would be any better than FPR in a crash like that??

In a crash like that body panels mean nothing, and the cage is all important.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:25 am

Steel would have been better than a frp roof or an alluminum roof for many reasons, while I'll agree with you that the cage is the most important. Having a steel roof keeps the debris out of the car. And usually the welded steel roof will deform with the shell of the car. What you saw with the evos alloy roof wasn't an issue of the metal used but how it's anchored to the unibody (glue/rivets). Fiberglass would be even worst as it would explode upon impact.

There's a reason WRC cars use the factory steel doors & roof skins.

And the cage in that pikes peak evo was shit.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:19 pm

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Today I completed the passenger side of the plug for the door panal, I'm going to get this in primer and then begin making the mold. There's still a fair amount of work left on the drivers side. I think I may vacuume bag them. It's not a structural piece but I would like to become more proficient at the process.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby MWP » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:46 am

nw94rs wrote:Steel would have been better than a frp roof or an alluminum roof for many reasons, while I'll agree with you that the cage is the most important. Having a steel roof keeps the debris out of the car. And usually the welded steel roof will deform with the shell of the car. What you saw with the evos alloy roof wasn't an issue of the metal used but how it's anchored to the unibody (glue/rivets). Fiberglass would be even worst as it would explode upon impact.


I think i would prefer for a brittle FRP roof to break up, than for a steel one to slice me up.

There's a reason WRC cars use the factory steel doors & roof skins.


... yeah, its cost cutting.
Nothing else.

And the cage in that pikes peak evo was shit.


Will agree with you on that!
They were VERY lucky.
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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:56 am

MWP wrote:... yeah, its cost cutting.
Nothing else


There's not a single cost cut in today's world rally car. I mean the cars cost $750,000 & that's not even with a single spare, or the team of engineers required to turn the thing on. As far as composites go it uses Autoclave formed prepregnate carbon on the bumpers, fenders, and mirrors. Shit they use autoclaved Kevlar fender liners, It would be nothing for them to whip up a set of doors and a roof skin, it comes down to safety. A rally cars safety is a whole different world than a circuit cars, where composite panals are more commonly found.

MWP wrote: I think i would prefer for a brittle FRP roof to break up, than for a steel one to slice me up.


The roof rarely ever gets the opportunity to seperate from the car and begin slicing and if the doors do come off their hinges the chances of them entering the 2'x2' ingress/egress hole for the drivers compartment is slim. That's the benefit of steel, a carbon door would explode sending sharp carbon shards everywhere. The steel on the other hand will just deform & in the roofs case as far as the cage will allow. I included some of the more recent "bad" crashes in the WRC, notice how the roofs never separate from the unibody & only deform to the shape of the cage.

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Re: 165-KISS

Postby nw94rs » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:58 pm

I filled my antenna hole on my wing today. I fiberglassed the back side and skimmed the top with mud, then sprayed it with some primer. I'll drive it around like this until the car gets painted after winter.
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We also installed some aerocatch hood pins.
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I also found a picture of El Matador Carlos Sainz during a road side service in his 165, you can see what they were doing for door panals back then. Pretty simple, but the door bars on cages were pretty basic back then.
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