HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby mickeyfinn » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:45 pm

I'm going down a similar road you are with my ST165.

I am in the process of changing over to a Link ECU Standalone.

I'm nervous about a couple things now.

I swapped my ST165 factor pump with a Denso 951-0014 Fuel Pump. (Supra TT pump, 260 lph). I didn't do anything new for wiring, just used factory. I'm hoping it doesn't pull too much current now? I wonder how much current it does pull.

I bought the ID1050X injectors, was looking forward to them. But as it turns out, they are not compatible with an ST165. The O-rings are not compatible, and won’t seal, and the Injector body length is incompatible. There is interference between the wiring plug and intake manifold. No way to make them work. I ended up going with Deatschwerks 1000cc Bosch EV14 Injectors, (PN- 17U-07-1000-4). (Resistor Pack removed) Perfect fit, and very nice injectors. I didn't think about spray cone though, or spray hitting inside the manifold somewhere. I hope I'll be OK there?

I went with a Tomei Adjustable Regulator (43.5psi), Universal Type S, PN-TB507A-0000A.
I designed and 3D printed a mount that goes on the strut brace.
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Tomei Fuel Pressure Regulator Mount-5_60p.jpg
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby hoys » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:51 pm

mickeyfinn wrote:I'm going down a similar road you are with my ST165.

I am in the process of changing over to a Link ECU Standalone.

I'm nervous about a couple things now.

I swapped my ST165 factor pump with a Denso 951-0014 Fuel Pump. (Supra TT pump, 260 lph). I didn't do anything new for wiring, just used factory. I'm hoping it doesn't pull too much current now? I wonder how much current it does pull.

I bought the ID1050X injectors, was looking forward to them. But as it turns out, they are not compatible with an ST165. The O-rings are not compatible, and won’t seal, and the Injector body length is incompatible. There is interference between the wiring plug and intake manifold. No way to make them work. I ended up going with Deatschwerks 1000cc Bosch EV14 Injectors, (PN- 17U-07-1000-4). (Resistor Pack removed) Perfect fit, and very nice injectors. I didn't think about spray cone though, or spray hitting inside the manifold somewhere. I hope I'll be OK there?

I went with a Tomei Adjustable Regulator (43.5psi), Universal Type S, PN-TB507A-0000A.
I designed and 3D printed a mount that goes on the strut brace.


Very nice mount! That gives me an idea for the ethanol sensor.

The nice thing about the ID series is that they are all the same base unit and generally always require some sort of adapter to be used in certain situation. I found the ID support guys very helpful in finding parts that worked for me.

As far as pump current draw, it would have to be measured. If you aren't noticing fuel flow issues or drops in pressure at high load areas, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby mickeyfinn » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:16 pm

Thanks!
I'll try to post the .stl files for the mount on thingiverse soon if anyone wants to use it.
I can email you the CAD File if you want to try to modify it to get your ethanol mount.

I'm wondering about those injectors spraying into something inside the manifold now.
I REALLY don't want to take it all apart to look in and see. Wouldn't these just spray similar to the factory 440's?

I don't really need 1,000cc injectors. I just went with them to have plenty of headroom on duty cycle.
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby hoys » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm

mickeyfinn wrote:Thanks!
I'll try to post the .stl files for the mount on thingiverse soon if anyone wants to use it.
I can email you the CAD File if you want to try to modify it to get your ethanol mount.

I'm wondering about those injectors spraying into something inside the manifold now.
I REALLY don't want to take it all apart to look in and see. Wouldn't these just spray similar to the factory 440's?

I don't really need 1,000cc injectors. I just went with them to have plenty of headroom on duty cycle.


I'd love whatever you can share. Once my design is finalized I'll also be publishing the design on Thingiverse. I have both .STL and .SLDPRT. If you wouldn't mind sharing the file that would be awesome.

Probably anything is an upgrade over the factory 165 injectors.

I certainly don't need the 1050x's as well, but if there are any upgrades in the future these are at the limit of what I'd probably ever want the car to be capable of (famous last words?)
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby mickeyfinn » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:28 pm

I hear ya.
Buy nice injectors one time.

Injector Dynamics did mention to try an adapter, and to stack o-ring seals on top of each other. I wasn't liking the idea a whole lot.
These Deatschwerks fit perfectly right out of the box. They also have all the data characteristics just like ID does.
I just emailed them, and asked for the info in the format Link wants it. They sent it in about 5 minutes.
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby hoys » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:04 pm

mickeyfinn wrote:I hear ya.
Buy nice injectors one time.

Injector Dynamics did mention to try an adapter, and to stack o-ring seals on top of each other. I wasn't liking the idea a whole lot.
These Deatschwerks fit perfectly right out of the box. They also have all the data characteristics just like ID does.
I just emailed them, and asked for the info in the format Link wants it. They sent it in about 5 minutes.


I agree stacking O-Rings isn't great. If those injectors were drop in then the corresponding part for a the same YMM Subaru should be nearly drop in as well..
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby Alikazam » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:53 am

Just read this whole thread, great read. I've been working on my ST185 since July of 2020 and got her up, running, tuned, driving, tagged and legal and daily drivable, windows fixed, sound system sorta working (right rear speakers don't seem to work), etc. from it having sat unmovable from 2006. Walbro 450 pump in tank, had to do a whole tank restoration. Custom modified fuel pick up for 1/2" feed and 3/8" return with welded on fittings (-6 and -8). Used stock fuel feed line as my return with adapters (cut line and used compression type fitting on tube), and ran 1/2" stainless hard line I bent up for the new feed. Noticed during tuning that the pressure was dropping near red line slightly, and could be the same issue with wiring size to the Walbro (using factory wiring presently). Might be an area to upgrade. Tuned to 327 awhp with a Gen 3 engine, FMIC, cams, 18psi boost, Precision 5130 turbo in a Street Brawler kit, and 3" turbo back exhaust (mostly made out of scrap pieces). Did spin on oil adapter on block where factory cooler was, and ran -10 braided line to a B&M front oil cooler in location of stock front fan. SPAL 11" fan on factory rear left side is only fan but with big Aluminum radiator, temps never going over 195 deg F so far and when fan turns on, they just start dropping. She isn't super pretty, but she runs good! I really need to do my AC system like you did, but I'm still in the middle of fixing a few other things still before I can dig into it. I.E. previously mentioned speakers, poorly mounted Gen 7 seats, and adding in relay-adapter harness (DIY) to make Beamtech LED h4's work properly. Love that there's another ST185 saved and on the road again! Keep cranking away! :) Great color too. Will be following your progress :)
1990 Celica Alltrac - Emma
Gen 3 engine
KO Racing Street Brawler - Precision 5130 Turbo
KO Racing In Factory ECU Case - Link G4x ECU
327 AWHP @ 18psi - pump gas
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby hoys » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:23 pm

Thanks for the topic bump! I've been meaning to come back and update this.

Sadly over the winter I did not get much work done on the car. Busy times. I've recently been getting back into the project to get everything wrapped up.

Currently I am getting the valve cover cleaned by a vapor blasting service before reinstallation. There was lots of built up gunk so I wanted to start fresh. Also the sealant on the PCV baffles was completely toast so I figured it was a good time to start fresh. While that is out I am devising a better PCV system entirely. I removed the press fit adapter from the valve cover and I am attempting to see if one of the Radium swivel press in fittings might be substituted.

Image

This would make the PCV setup a bit cleaner. According to their fitment matrix the smallest AN size I can get is a -12. A bit bigger than I wanted, but I'll give it a shot.

Next up, since I've had a lot of time to research, I think I'm going ahead with a drive by wire conversion. I'm tired of the idle up valve, cruise control modulator, and throttle cables. I've got an ECU that can do it, I just need to find the right hardware. After a *lot* of internet digging, I think I've found a suitable throttle body. I somehow jumped from MR2 forums to DSM forums to EvoX forums to Mustang forums to find that the 2014+ Ford Focus uses what seems to be the same bolt pattern for mounting and is a similar throttle body bore if not the same as a Gen2 3SGTE. The positioning of the actuator motor might be a problem, but I receive the throttle body today so I'll be able to test. Worst case if the bolt pattern is correct but it sits too close to the mounting flange, there are either the junk "vortex air" spacers or meth injection spacers on the market for the ST (same throttle body) that I can easily use to get the motor housing away from the flange.

Image

I'm sure there will be some "hurr durr why DBW CABLE IS BETTER BRO" comments. Just know that you don't know what you are talking about.
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby simple » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:15 pm

My dirt bike has a more advanced ECM than an early 1990s Toyota so I'm down with your plan to go drive by wire.
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby abeans » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:21 pm

One of my favorite things about older cars is drive by cable. :(
1990 St185 Celica
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby Alikazam » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:11 pm

abeans wrote:One of my favorite things about older cars is drive by cable. :(


There is a definite smiplicty and elegance to just putting your foot down and moving the throttle blade directly. That being said, almost all new cars use drive by wire and with modern aftermarket ECU's and some retro-fitting, you can do things like add cruise control ability with just the computer brain and some algorithms without all the mechanical hardware, etc. by having a drive by wire throttle body set up. How cool would it be to have cruise control on a 1971 cuda or 1969 charger without any additional cables? Anyway, I digress :)
1990 Celica Alltrac - Emma
Gen 3 engine
KO Racing Street Brawler - Precision 5130 Turbo
KO Racing In Factory ECU Case - Link G4x ECU
327 AWHP @ 18psi - pump gas
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby autojumbled » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:34 pm

Interested to see how you get on with the electronic throttle - I agree. Updating to newer tech is a great way to ensure older cars stay usable! :D
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby underscore » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:49 pm

Surely you'll miss having that big looping mess across the top of the engine. I suppose you could run the DBW harness the same way to keep the look :P

I love the forum hopping to find the info you need to do something unconventional. Sifting through the tidbits to figure out if X fits Y, and Y fits Z with a tweak, then it should fit my car is a lot of fun.

I imagine most of the dislike of DBW comes from early systems that I assume had a bit of a delay. I never noticed anything in my wifes old Matrix though, my only annoyance with it was trying to adjust the idle and I assume that's a non-issue with an aftermarket ECU.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby hoys » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:15 pm

underscore wrote:I imagine most of the dislike of DBW comes from early systems that I assume had a bit of a delay. I never noticed anything in my wifes old Matrix though, my only annoyance with it was trying to adjust the idle and I assume that's a non-issue with an aftermarket ECU.


Exactly, even modern systems have a built in delay. With an aftermarket ECU you can define all parameters. Believe it or not, a DBW system can move a throttle plate faster than a cable.

All of the parts are on order or on hand for the conversion. I'm attempting to use the Rat2 MR2 DBW pedal adapter, but I assume I'll have to make my own, but it's a good starting point.

I also desinged and ordered a throttle adapter plate to deal with the IAC channel in the manifold and the fact that the DBW throttle doesn't have this. This adapter should also alleviate a small spacing issue of the DBW motor housing to the cold start injector to IAT adapter plate. Small grinding might need to occur, but should be pretty straight forward.

The Ford TB selected has smaller bolt holes than the 3S manifold so the holes need to be drilled a size bigger, but no problem there.

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Re: HOYS' ST185 Res-Q

Postby Alikazam » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:02 pm

What diameter TB is that? Just curious for reference.
1990 Celica Alltrac - Emma
Gen 3 engine
KO Racing Street Brawler - Precision 5130 Turbo
KO Racing In Factory ECU Case - Link G4x ECU
327 AWHP @ 18psi - pump gas
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