Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoration

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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby FC Zach » Thu May 30, 2019 3:29 am

FC Zach wrote:Now, with that said, I thought I had read somewhere that there was or may have been a revision to this part.


I believe what I had seen was just new color options, whether or not they're made any differently, I have no clue. . It's not stated on their site at least.
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1992 Toyota Celica AllTrac
1993 Yamaha GTS1000
1987 Mazda RX7 Sport
1979 Yamaha G1A, rotary powered with Sachs KM24
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby alltrac801 » Thu May 30, 2019 4:09 am

I was looking at buying one when I got my other engine finished but with seeing how yours didnt last I'll probably pass. I just think the look of the clear cover is cool lol.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby FC Zach » Thu May 30, 2019 5:12 am

alltrac801 wrote:I was looking at buying one when I got my other engine finished but with seeing how yours didnt last I'll probably pass. I just think the look of the clear cover is cool lol.


Something to think about. . aside from the cool looking factor, it is a useful tool. If it weren't for the cover and the ability to visually inspect my belt, I would have been left stranded. This isn't something that just happens and shouldn't be a concern to anyone (unless swapping parts) but my belt was wearing away due to a faulty tensioner pulley assembly I purchased from RockAuto which was pulling the belt inward and rubbing against the assy. Aside from that, it's nice to see belt condition and the presence of oil should there be a front main and/or cam seal leak.

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Even though mine degraded in short time, I'll buy another. . that's mostly only because there's no other option out there that I know of.
1992 Toyota Celica AllTrac
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby alltrac801 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:15 pm

Shit that a good point and I really didn't think about that. Now I'll probably get one for my new motor!
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Fri May 31, 2019 2:53 pm

yeah I really think that since I'm putting in a new motor I should get that while it's out so I can avoid pulling it later to inspect the belt.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby FC Zach » Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm

FC Zach wrote:That looks like a block to bell housing brace.
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EvilStig wrote:Your picture shows accurately where and how it connects to the block, but the bell housing is nowhere near close enough to there. It's directly behind the cat and downpipe (and the construction is the same as the cat support brackets) hence I thought it was some kind of support for the exhaust flange, but I can find nothing nearby that would actually attach to it.


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It's hard to see but there might be another piece there, I can't tell for sure. Hell, to get this picture, I had to hold the phone between the rad and turbo upside down with two fingers while holding a flashlight in the other hand. . Needles to say, this is the best view your gonna get from me without having to pull stuff off.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Fri May 31, 2019 8:28 pm

FC Zach wrote:It's hard to see but there might be another piece there, I can't tell for sure. Hell, to get this picture, I had to hold the phone between the rad and turbo upside down with two fingers while holding a flashlight in the other hand. . Needles to say, this is the best view your gonna get from me without having to pull stuff off.


An impressive photo all things considering!

You're right, it looks like a bolt goes through it from the other side, in the direction of the bell housing.... hmmmm.... I'll have another look at mine tonight.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:37 am

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Look what arrived today! I spent entirely too much money on it... a JDM ST185H (GT-Four RC) motor with attached transmission and front diff.

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For the first time ever I can see the back side of the engine... more on that later.

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Right off the bat I'm noticing a number of differences between this motor and mine. Like for example this part of my motor is crowded with vacuum tubes and vacuum actuated devices, while this one is not. I really hope this sensor is even supported with my wire harness.

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This looks like part of an electronic boost controller. I'll need to research more on it later.

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back side of that part with what looks like a part number.

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Let's play "spot all the times they just said 'f*** it' and cut the engine out with a plasma torch.

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I'm either really good at this game or it's just really easy.

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back side of the manifold where no man can see or reach with the motor in the car

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closer up you can see vacuum tubing and more vacuum devices! oh joy! perhaps this is the source of the boost leak I couldn't find on my motor with it in the car...

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Cleverly, previous owner covered the entire underside and front of the intercooler with heat shielding. I should probably attempt to do the same to my ST205IC

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This post-MAF sensor is something I don't have on mine... not sure what it is....

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but it's broken out from the MAF sensor harness using what looks like 120vAC stranded cable or oversized speaker wire.

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This plastic loom looks really out of place here, but I've never dug deep enough in my engine to know if I have the same.

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mystery previous owner tap and splice. Comes out of the same harness junction as the MAP sensor.

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More sketchy looking taps and splices, these ones coming off the ECU

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This is honestly rather concerning given the blackbox nature of this device and my limited ability to figure it out.

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back to that other wire harness, there's a second device next to the MAP sensor which isn't on mine...

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mine has some other vacuum thingy here instead.

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Since I had previously been very curious about the design and functionality of this part of the RC motor (the timing belt cooler boot for the RC hood), I figured I'd post some detailed pics and analysis while I had the opportunity.

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You can see here it's really just a smaller plastic part bolted on to the valve cover.

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At the same location on my USDM motor, you can see a small gap/hole between the timing belt cover and the valve cover. I'm wondering now if that boot is really nothing more than a funnel to direct air from the hood scoop into that gap. If so, it should be trivial to custom fab an aftermarket replacement for the part to fit USDM motors.

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Another view where you can see at least one of the bolts it attaches to on the RC motor is also present on the USDM one.

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more detail on the RC part.

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Last pic for now... I never noticed before the timing belt cover says Yamaha on it. That part is covered up by AC plumbing on mine so I can't see without removing the motor (which I am doing soon enough now...)

Stay tuned for more updates!
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby underscore » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:06 pm

That sensor in the intake is weird. I'd check the part number on the ECU (and open it up), maybe someone did some kind of ghetto ECU swap.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby alltracman78 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 am

It's an older style Toyota intake temp sensor. Our cars have the intake temp sensor in the AFM. Looks like for whatever reason they cut the one in the AFM out and used one they installed in the intake tube.
Also, it looks like that AFM connector is a regular one, not a homologation one. Post up a pic of the AFM itself.

The homologation engine is almost 100% identical to the regular 185 engine. Aside from the AFM connector you can take that engine and stick it right in a regular 92/93 185 and the harness will connect right up. You can run either engine with either ECU.
You can even run either AFM with either ECU (I've done it out of curiosity, not for an extended period of time. But it accelerated and ran fine. No codes, no stumbling, nothing.). I'm not suggesting you should, just that it's doable.

The different stuff is due to JDM vs USDM stuff and not homologation vs non homologation.

That "device next to the MAP sensor" is an electronic AC idle up. USDM uses a vacuum one.
The vacuum lines are slightly different for the EVAP and lack of an EGR.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:26 pm

alltracman78 wrote:It's an older style Toyota intake temp sensor. Our cars have the intake temp sensor in the AFM. Looks like for whatever reason they cut the one in the AFM out and used one they installed in the intake tube.
Also, it looks like that AFM connector is a regular one, not a homologation one. Post up a pic of the AFM itself.

The homologation engine is almost 100% identical to the regular 185 engine. Aside from the AFM connector you can take that engine and stick it right in a regular 92/93 185 and the harness will connect right up. You can run either engine with either ECU.
You can even run either AFM with either ECU (I've done it out of curiosity, not for an extended period of time. But it accelerated and ran fine. No codes, no stumbling, nothing.). I'm not suggesting you should, just that it's doable.

The different stuff is due to JDM vs USDM stuff and not homologation vs non homologation.

That "device next to the MAP sensor" is an electronic AC idle up. USDM uses a vacuum one.
The vacuum lines are slightly different for the EVAP and lack of an EGR.


MAF did not come with the motor, unfortunately, so no pics of that...

So how difficult is it going to be to hook up a JDM motor in a USDM car and have all of the accessories and everything work? Like can I wire in the electronic AC idle up? or am I basically stuck disabling that feature?
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby underscore » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:33 pm

If you swap over all your USDM accessories and harness to the JDM shortblock I'd think it'll work just like a USDM motor.
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It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby alltracman78 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:42 am

The accessories are all the same. They hook up just fine to the US harness [assuming you have the same revision. If not just the alternator harness is different, and you can use the one from your engine.].
Either ECU will work with the harness and engine. The homologation ECU will need 1 extra wire added and ran to ground or it will throw a code for the intercooler. I don't remember which pin but it's in the body harness connector to the ECU. Also, ideally you want the homologation AFM to go with the ECU. It's larger than the regular one.
The problem is if you use the JDM ECU it doesn't work correctly with the US AC computer. The AC should turn on but the engine won't idle up [not because of the VSV]. Coldiron ? should have a pretty detailed thread about it.

There are a few extra VSVs and things on the JDM engine that you won't need. That AC idle up VSV, the VSV for the charcoal canister and the EGT sensor after the cat.
You can just leave the EGR connector hanging. And take a close look at the vacuum tubing, they're slightly different for the emissions stuff.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head; been a while.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:59 pm

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Problems abound! The turbo impeller doesn't turn freely, and when turning it by hand it begins oozing oil mixed with coolant.


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So I looked up the ECU part number, and it's not a Celica ECU at all! It's from an MR2 SW20. Would explain some of the wiring harness fuckery.

I'm contacting the seller, going to see about sending it back, as this is way too sketchy for what I paid.
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Re: Project LOLTRAC, or ST185 BS - a USDM Alltrac restoratio

Postby EvilStig » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:13 am

Okay update time.

I found the source of one boost leak. The power steering idle up valve was broken off the pump and left dangling by some past mechanic... where it eventually snapped off the connector to the manifold. So I was able to fix that at least.

I found more issues though.

Firstly, and maybe I just don't understand how this is supposed to work, but...

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Any pressure I put into the intake is lost unless I plug this hose up here. This recirculates back into the intake after the MAF but before the turbo. If I plug that hose, I can build pressure with the boost leak tester. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be, but I'm relatively sure it isn't supposed to be dumping boost out of it.

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It seems to be connected to the AC idle up valve and then runs back into the mess under the manifold somewhere.

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When I pinch this hose I don't hear/feel any hissing, so I presume the boost is escaping from somewhere else.

Any ideas? Or is this 'normal' with the motor not in operation?

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This device, whatever it is, is shown to be leaking also via the smoke test. Anyone know what it is or where I'd get a replacement?

I can also hear a hissing sound coming from the EGR valve as I build boost. Is that normal or does it need to be replaced? can it even be replaced? seems the part is discontinued and ebay shows nothing.

Last bit of bad news is the gas tank is leaking somewhere up near the top, and I can't find any info on replacement gaskets I'd need to take it down and look at it.
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