RORERI: A JDM 1992 ST185H-BLMVZ

Roreri

Active member
Thanks for the response and shared wisdom on this, as I consider how to proceed.

To be clear, $1400 included the shop hours at best I can figure $179 an hour, but I agree, it’s a lot. The parts department is being lazy or they have a ridiculous markup policy. I looked at the installation instructions posted on DENSOProducts.com and saw that it’s reasonably involved. As for 5 hours, they’re probably going “by the book” on the labor involved, everything rounded up.

Compressor and dryer, skip expansion valve, check. Union o-rings, too. I’ll look at the rebuild page you posted. You make it sound pretty easy to do the removal and replacement over a weekend, so I’ll give it a think. Late September is the perfect time for this sort of thing—the urgency is stripped right out of it.

Stopping by another shop to get a leak check after work. Maybe an estimate on doing the work. I hate to be lazy but I’m mechanically shy. Maybe this is the good break-in to the work.
 

hoys

Member
Roreri":2m4mezho said:
Thanks for the response and shared wisdom on this, as I consider how to proceed.

To be clear, $1400 included the shop hours at best I can figure $179 an hour, but I agree, it’s a lot. The parts department is being lazy or they have a ridiculous markup policy. I looked at the installation instructions posted on DENSOProducts.com and saw that it’s reasonably involved. As for 5 hours, they’re probably going “by the book” on the labor involved, everything rounded up.

Compressor and dryer, skip expansion valve, check. Union o-rings, too. I’ll look at the rebuild page you posted. You make it sound pretty easy to do the removal and replacement over a weekend, so I’ll give it a think. Late September is the perfect time for this sort of thing—the urgency is stripped right out of it.

Stopping by another shop to get a leak check after work. Maybe an estimate on doing the work. I hate to be lazy but I’m mechanically shy. Maybe this is the good break-in to the work.

ah, 1,400 all in isn't too bad then.

Realistically all in I had about 80-90 dollars in parts, about 150 in tools and freon to entirely DIY the job. I'm a handy guy but not an HVAC expert by any means. Amazon-China Gauge set, vac pump, and freon from Wal-Mart.

Removing the compressor is pretty easy but you might have to remove a few things to get easy access. Radiator hose, alternator cooling duct, downpipe. Not all required, but makes it easy. Inspect the compressor well to see where it's leaking from. It could just be the VC O-Ring. Here is what the leak from it looked like on mine:

co8riKI.jpg


You can clearly see that just about everything was leaking including the case bolt seals as there is some dark stuck on dirt around them on the left side. But the majority of the leaking was clearly from the sensor.
 

Roreri

Active member
That is a messy compressor! Looks like a do-able job though.

Today I drove the GT-Four 10 miles to work and 10 miles home, no problem. The weather was glorious today. A/C liked to settle around 45 degrees F at the vent while driving, then slowly climbed to settle at 57 degrees F at the vent when parked.

I didn't get the leak checked at that second shop today. The appointment didn't work. That shop has decided one tech and one tech only works on the GT-Four, and he was off. They wanted me to leave it, and I wanted to take a trip in the evening. So I rescheduled.

I drove a 36 mile loop west of Alexandria on the twisties out toward Manassas. Like to have scared my son to death, as he was sitting in the left seat, facing right into oncoming traffic, much lower than he's used to sitting in the back seat of the RAV4! I had to admit that he had a point. :D Had the old mix tape rolling too:

Period Correct 90s Music.JPG

It behaved well, crossing over 1000km driven since purchase. Temps and performance were on point. Today when I got home from work, and when I got back from the longer spin out west, the intercooler was right at 204 degrees F, reflecting today's cooler temperatures.

TOUCH UP PAINT ON WIPER ARMS

When I got home, I decided that I'd paint the wiper arms. I used brush on flat enamel.

Before:

Wipers Before 24 Sep 2021 Small.JPG

After:

Wipers After 24 Sep 2021 Small.JPG

They look a bit patchy, but much less rusted and ratty. This will do until I work something better out.
 

Roreri

Active member
DETAIL DAY

Roreri 25 Sep 2021 (Small).JPG

I applied a little touchup paint to the scars at the top of three wheel wells, just to get some paint over the bare metal--not the right fix but the right now fix:

Touch Up 25 Sep 2021 (Small).JPG

I also put some paint at the corner of the hood where it had somehow been bent in its previous travels. The cockpit is clean! That MOMO Olympic III is very nice.

Cockpit 25 Sep 2021 (Small).JPG

Looking good. I pulled the original floor mats out and I was pleased with their condition. I'm using WeatherTech mats for now, especially as we're heading into fall and winter. I was getting it all set up for a three hour tour with my wife but she lost control of her day so I waxed it and got into the engine compartment, cleaning the engine and the underside of the hood. It'll look nice for tomorrow's trip.
 

underscore

Well-known member
I really need to do the same with my wiper blades, it's amazing how much of a different the little things makes.
 

Roreri

Active member
Underscore, I just got some flat enamel and brushed it on. I put a cloth underneath so it didn't drip onto anything. It took about an hour. Not a difficult job--just wants doing. If I had to do it over again, I might lay some thick paper underneath, take the blades off, and rattlecan the arms with spray black. Or take the arms off and do them.

Grip-addict, thanks! I've really been enjoying this. This car has changed my life. I find myself in conversations I never woke up knowing I'd be in. And it sure has improved my commute. Lastly, it's changed my whole remembrance of a period in my life that began with a great job and a new Super Red Celica ST and ended with getting fired and handing the Celica back to the bank. Following that were the rest of the nineties, which I made more difficult than they had to be. I was foot-bound for two years and eventually ended up in a 1982 Datsun 210 hatchback--basic transportation that served well but quite the demotion. Like this one:

1982 Datsun 210.jpg

Now, that bad memory is repaired. Which is what I was hoping for. And though owning this GT-Four entails troubles and money, it's been worth it so far.

Yesterday's detail work:

Engine Compartment Before and After 25 Sep 2021.JPG

The engine compartment was pretty clean and dry when I got it. The main issues were dust and minor rust, and the normal old aluminum surface corrosion. I got after it with some Gunk engine degreaser, steel wool, and Meguiar's Ultimate Black. I'm not too sure you can see much difference but it does look better in person, and I fouled several microfiber towels in the doing.

Headlight Bracket Before and After 25 Sep 2021.JPG

The metal inside the engine compartment just aft of the headlight is especially exposed to the environment. I took a brass brush to it and then brushed on some flat enamel. It won't win any beauty contests but it sure looks better.

We took the GT-Four out to Luray and back to Alexandria along the twisties for a seven hour, 285km round trip. This was a longer range shakedown to test reliability because until now I've kept it close to home on shorter trips. The route was a very nice combination of open roads, expressways, and heavily wooded two-lane twisties. The weather was cool and clear--about as nice as you could ask for.

Which was helpful because the A/C stopped blowing cold after we made a stop at a roadside shop. It had been doing fine until then. The performance drop off I'd been noting was slow until it happened all at once. That didn't cast much of a pall over the trip, given the nice weather. The wife said that these things happen with older cars--she was mostly concerned that I'd be disappointed, or that I'd get discouraged if the expenses started mounting. She didn't have the "Oh, this thing is falling apart" angry wife attitude. That was nice. I told her that with the weather turning cooler I'm inclined to take my time getting it fixed, and told her I just want to slow the roll a little on the outgoing cash. That way if something more urgent presents I'll be better postured to correct it. She was pretty supportive, whether I wanted to get on it right away or later. So all good there for now!

:notworthy:

Performance was great. Running very nicely on 93 octane pump gas at stock boost. The suspension setup isn't the most comfortable for road touring, and I had to pay close attention to bumps and potholes lest we take a hit, but it's stiff and tight in the corners. Whoever set this up knew what they were doing, in my opinion. I don't have high performance tires on it but it held on very stably and I didn't have to widen out the turn at speed to avoid understeer in tight corners so much. It just feels so planted. On the open straightaways it doesn't have to be rapped out to get what you want in terms of acceleration and speed. It's a I4, so it does rev higher at speed than I'm used to with a V6, and it is a louder experience overall than most modern vehicles. But it passed the wife test as far as general comfort, with the proviso that it's a different sort of car and therefore a different experience as a given. Overall, it was an enjoyable time.

There's a very nice stretch of road between Sperryville and Luray, where HWY 211 crosses the Shenandoah Ridge--the kind of road the ST185 was made for.
 

hoys

Member
After seeing underhood pictures, are you planning on converting to the RC/CS style intercooler? Your hood isn't the "USDM" or "base" style with a scoop for the air to air intercooler, you might be missing a lot of performance due to the poor cooling of the charge air.
 

Roreri

Active member
Yeah, that's part of the mystery of this ST185. The previous owner thought to install a boost controller and a air flow converter. But no AFM--I can only assume they went to a tuner and set the AFC. But the dials have since then been zeroed out. And then put the CS hood on it. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what he (or she?) was thinking.

For now, I'm satisfied, because I'm still in the honeymoon phase. As long as I'm not damaging the engine, I'm fine for now. I'm running stock boost and so far I've left the S-AFC alone.

I wonder what amount of performance I might be missing. 1% for every ten degrees is what I've read--so if I can drop it 20 degrees F then 5hp? I don't know for sure what temps the intercooler gets to during spirited driving. I have measured it upon reaching destinations. It reached 183 F when I was driving ten miles to work downhill in the morning, and 210 degrees F when I was driving ten miles home uphill in the heat of the day in early September. Today, when I got home, it measured 200 degrees F--it's getting cooler.

I've read this regarding intercoolers: https://www.alltrac.net/tuning/intercooler.html

Eventually, I would like to go to a2w if the opportunity presents--this would be another step down the road toward completing what the previous owner started (whether they knew it or not) with the CS hood and front bumper.

As mafix said here viewtopic.php?t=44276 some years ago, the ST205 a2w intercooler is best.

I guess I should place a WTB post in the appropriate place, because it can take some time to source the right parts.

https://www.alltrac.net/tuning/RCintercooler.html

Another option I'm considering is a front mount intercooler, but I like the responsiveness I have, even if it's less overall. So a high flow TMIC might be better.

As an interim measure, I'm considering an intercooler fan. ATS racing offers one. I have a cart set up to pull the trigger. That might be the way to start.
 

grip-addict

Active member
These guys have a hose kit, heat exchanger, and pump you could buy. I think you'll be on your own for finding your core though. https://gt4-play.co.uk/shop/uprated-cha ... r-radiator
If I wasn't already invested in a setup, I would opt for a FMIC unless you are just absolutely set on doing the full rc conversion. Less moving parts is a good thing IMO. And I can say that with some authority because I lost a motor on my red alltrac because of an intercooler pump failure :(
 

Roreri

Active member
Hahahahah you trying to scare me off the a2w intercooler?!

But really, it does bring up a good point, which is that moving parts adds complexity to an already complex motor. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on that Spal fan from ATS. It's a start.

I don't know whether it comes with any wiring harness, but if it doesn't, I found this wiring harness with thermostat and relay at Twos R Us for $50:

Twos R Us Fan Harness with Thermostat.JPG
 

Roreri

Active member
SUSPENSION INSPECTION

I have to admit that I haven't really gone over the suspension until now. I pushed at the corners and it didn't act like the shocks were dead. I test drove it some. I had it inspected by a mechanic, before and after. And throughout the 1400km I've clocked since taking delivery it's behaved like I'd expect a pillowball equipped car to behave--responsive but harsher.

I put it up on jacks today and tested the bearings (again) by trying to move the wheel front and back and top and bottom. All good there--no wobble, and no noise that I can notice while driving. A mechanic did say that the rear left has a little play but I had real trouble detecting it today.

I got under it today and snapped some photos.

Front Passenger's Side Shock Absorber:

Front Left Shock Small.JPG

Front Driver's Side Shock Absorber:

Front Right Shock Small.JPG

These are the original OEM shock absorbers, stamped like this

TOYOTA
JAPAN
GC-18

There is a sticker on the back that reads:

53
I IIII II IIII IIIII III
92/03/18 1 3

Yes, these are nigh unto 30 year old shocks, installed in March 1992 when the car was assembled! (EDIT: This may or may not be true--the stickers I saw were not on the inserts but on the housing assembly they go into) I can tell by comparing pictures of mine with others that the front is lower. The top of the wheel well sits 24 and 3/16 inches off the pavement. The spec for ST185s is 1300mm height. I set a leveled 2x4 across the top of the roof and measured the height: 50 inches, or 1270mm. This GT-Four's roof is about an inch and a quarter lower than spec, and it definitely has some rake to it. I came across a post on CelicaHobby that said that Toyota Team Europe sold a 30mm lowering spring that can be used with the stock shock absorbers. There's no flashy branding on the springs, just black steel. But that's an interesting coincidence, especially given the Toyota Team Europe rear skid plate this GT-Four sports.

The shock boot on the driver's side is compromised and there isn't one on the passenger side. The Big Green Book doesn't show boots as part of the shock absorber assembly. Any recommendations or thoughts? I have a set of KYB Excel-Gs on hand--both fronts and backs. It might just be better to roll with what I have for now and eventually install them with boots.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... nd-bellows

Rear Strut:

Rear Strut2 Small.JPG

This is interesting. This is the car that keeps on giving. Though a detailed KYB description of the part eludes me, fragmentary (and older) comments here and there in forums suggest that these are uprated struts, and that they are significantly stiffer with compression and spring rates 125-175% higher than stock. That would comport with my impressions of the GT-Four's handling and road manners to date.

It's clear that the previous owner cared for this GT-Four and spent some money on it, but in a somewhat confusing manner. Upgraded rear struts but unchanged front shock absorbers with lowering springs and a Cusco pillow ball plate? No strut boots on the rears.

:|

I could just get a set of coilovers and fix it...money no issue right?

https://ksportusa.com/products/coilover ... elica-1992
 

underscore

Well-known member
Don't forget the front dampers are inserts, so the only way to check them is to pull them apart. But if they're original the guts are just inside the housing, without a "case" like a replacement would have to have. I suppose if you were really careful you could check without spilling any fluid.

When it comes to measuring ride height, the most accurate way is to measure from the center of the wheel hub, to the bottom lip of the fender, in a vertical line. That takes out any variations in tire size. Stock is approx. 14.25-14.5" front and rear.

Officially I believe the only boots are the sort of extension things that are part of the isolator in the front and nothing in the rear.

If you're happy with the handling and ride I'd stick with what you have. When I got mine it handled like a sack of potatoes so I dove right into coilovers. They handled well, but I lost a ton of downtravel. When I wanted the travel back I rebuilt the stock setup and found the dampers were beyond trashed, the mounts were crumbling, etc. With everything new + stock springs it's not far off from the coilovers, but a bit more comfortable.
 

Roreri

Active member
Oh, that's right. Of course--thank you. I mistakenly thought that the sticker on the outside of the housing indicated the age of the shock absorber. The inserts are inside and have no indicator that I can see.

The front is just shy of 13 inches and the rear is 14 inches. So, dropped an inch and a quarter in the front and a half an inch in the rear. Definitely more street/track profile as far as stance.

Great to know that nothing is in the rear as far as boots.

For now it's okay. The ride has taken some getting used to, but I like the handling. Maybe it's just me being used to driving much less capable vehicles. Given your experience it seems that there’s the potential for experimenting and back and forth to find the sweet spot.
 

Roreri

Active member
I’ve seen those in my internet wanderings. They’re a damn sight pricier than the EXCEL-G set that’s for sure, which ran $166 for the whole front/back setup. These would run $580 plus shipping. If just the backs, considerably less. I’d have to consider the implications of doing the backs in the New SRs and the fronts with the EXCEL-Gs…. My preference for simplicity would tend to favor keeping them all the same.

How do you like them? As always, a modest improvement in performance often entails a large cost increase. I could see doing it, but I’d want to know more. Next study project for me.

Like attracts like. I’ve taken to parking next to good looking cars if I can. I think the GT-Four need not lower its head next to this 911. At least as long as I don’t try and push the track performance discussion.

B8051670-617D-4B79-85D3-2D4C9BE6C094.jpeg
 

hoys

Member
Truthfully, they are still in the box. I haven't gotten around to suspension fixes yet with all the engine work and maintenance I've done. They are next on the list though. My issue with the EXECL-G was either the listing was incorrect, or the price to ship was astronomical. Pressurized gas cylinders are somewhat restricted when it comes to shipping. I think my quote to ship the EXCEL-G's from the UK to US was greater than the price for the SR's from the linked website. When I got them from RHDJapan it was something closer to 44,xxx yen, shipped.
 

Roreri

Active member
Ah, that blows. I got my EXCEL-Gs from Rock Auto. They were pretty inexpensive comparatively.

I wonder how much NIPPON(!!!) tax is involved in those. Having lived in Japan, I know damn well the markup can be crazy on such stuff.

My inquiry still stands then…collecting evidence…

Here. Another photobombing. This time sidling up to a Mercedes SL400 egregiously parked in a handicapped spot while its pilot sneaks in to grab a coffee:

4C128764-B280-4053-9487-1D6E826C5FAE.jpeg
 

alltracman78

Active member
I'm going to make a few suggestions about your intercooler. Food for thought anyways.

First off, with that hood a fan is a waste of money IMO. You'd be better off putting it towards a different intercooler. The hump in the hood effectively closes off the intercooler to any airflow from outside. Any airflow you do have will be from the hot engine bay and will be minimal for obvious reasons. Since you did buy it you could install an intake temperature sensor to see how much of a difference the fan makes. I doubt you'll need a thermostat for the fan, it will probably always be on in your situation.
The other consideration is if the fan fits under the hump. I know there's more overall area under the homologation hood hump than the regular hood hump (scoop) but I'm pretty sure the scoop has a higher "ceiling". It just has a smaller footprint. If that makes sense. So be careful closing the hood with the fan the first time. Just in case. :)

As far as getting an ST205 IC vs an ST185 WTA IC I would actually suggest an ST185 one because it fits much better. I've had both on a 185 engine. I started with a 205 one because it was considered better. But I didn't like how it physically fit on the engine.
Even with the 185 WTA mounting bracket (the homologation 185s with the WTA IC had a different, larger bracket for the IC on the transmission end of the engine) IIRC only 1 bolt actually fits to hold the 205 IC onto the engine. And you have to get a drop down sized coupler that doesn't fit very well because of the lack of space to fit the IC outlet to the throttle body (70 mm to 55 mm?). I also ended up shortening the inlet tube for the IC so I could get a smoother transition from the turbo because it doesn't sit in the correct position. All in all awkwardly positioned any way you do it IMO.
Because of those problems I decided to go with a 185 homologation IC and resigned myself to some power loss. But after installing it and driving I was pleasantly surprised that the power delivery was quicker and smoother. Purely butt dyno, but it was the opposite of what I expected. My guess is that the awkwardness of the connection (mainly at the throttle body) hurt airflow. The turbo side was fairly smooth. It's the same size and has enough room with it shortened to line up fairly well. But the throttle body is way too close to allow any kind of a smooth transition. The outlet is basically right up against the throttle body so there's no space for the reducer to actually do it's job of smoothly reducing, it just seals off two different size ports and basically leaves room inside for the air to bounce around instead of smoothly flowing from one to the other. I noticed this same effect when I went from the accordion style factory intake tubes to smooth silicone ones. Initial response was quicker and smoother.
I hope that makes sense?

In addition to those, until you're pushing the limits of the 185 WTA IC I don't know how much advantage the 205 IC would give you purely power wise. Kind of like how a larger turbo will only help if you have the supporting mods to let it reach it's potential.

To be perfectly clear I've never done any other testing or comparison of the two, so it's purely subjective. And it's very possible the 205 would give you higher total power on a 185 engine, even with those drawbacks, especially on something like a drag race where it's full WOT the whole way. But for regular driving my guess is the 185 IC will be much better for you.

The nice thing is, aside from the WTA intercoolers themself the setup is effectively identical so that is the only thing you need to swap if you need to. To go from 205 to 185 and back. Well, and the engine tubing.

Also, if you care, the factory mounting for the IC pump is at the very end of the L front frame rail. The holes are all there for the mounting points. But I believe only 92s (and maybe only some of those) are the only ones that have all the nuts welded in to mount the factory mount. The ST185 homologation cars were all built in the 92 model year. Maybe all first off the line, I don't know. But at least some of the non homologation 92 cars got the nuts welded in there too. Nice touch if you have one. If you do go the WTA route you could try to find a factory pump/mount. Mount will be very hard to find. But you can also have a mount fabbed up for an aftermarket pump and stick it there. May be prettier than zip tied in the engine bay.

Homologation = RC (Japan) CS (Europe) Group A (Austraila) FYI.

That's a lot more than I intended to write, but there you go if you care. :)
 

simple

Member
Yeah it's a bummer that the RC and ST205 A2W intercooler mount bracket isn't available anymore. I had to have mine welded to repair.

Hasn't been mentioned but I have a ST165 intercooler and pump available to sell. Isn't everyone's favorite but it works well enough for street duty. Rally cars still run them so it can't be horrible.
 
Top