RORERI: A JDM 1992 ST185H-BLMVZ

underscore

Well-known member
Sorry to hear about the difficulties you've been facing.

You could probably patch up the part of the wiring damaged by the fire, but it's probably a good opportunity to get a whole new harness done. That'll clear away 30+ years of corrosion on some of the connections which might help with troubleshooting/preventing future issues.
 

Roreri

Active member
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.

I went out today and did some looking into the situation. Here's what's I can see that's broken:

1. The 100A Alternator Fuse was blown (there was a gap).
2. The 20A Dome Light Fuse was blown. I replaced it with a 20A fuse. All other fuses were good.
3. The Engine Main Relay has a singed/melted corner.
4. The CDS 30A and FAN 30A fuses are a little cooked on the outside, but the fusible links within were solid.
5. The wiring beneath the junction box is melted but there are no exposed wires right now and it is unknown whether any of the wires are touching/shorted within the mass.
6. The battery cables are damaged, but these too seem to be fine.

I put in a charged battery. It read 12.35v. I took a flat tip screwdriver and pushed the wires such that the gap closed just to check if that would was the problem and if it would turn over. I checked the circuit between the battery - terminal and the 100A Alternator Fuse in the junction box, and it was 12.35v.

Here's what works:

1. The door lights (interestingly, opening the passenger side door turns them on).
2. The dome light.
3. The trunk compartment light.
4. The "key in ignition" bell (when the passenger side door is open).
5. The light around the ignition (the ring of light that helps you find it in the dark).
6. When key set to ON position, the Apexi Super AFC (that I never use) lights up.
7. The headlights and headlight motors.

No headlight intensity drop when key turned to START

No clock, no turn signals, no radio, no mirror controls, no power windows, no lumbar motor, no fan, no windshield wipers. The USB adapter in the lighter port does not light up or indicate voltage.

I swapped ECUs. No change.

I got a reply back from Ty Saxon at TCS Motor Sports. He said that because of the additional labor involved in doing a Celica swap, the base price is $7300. I added up the options I would want and it would be over $10,000, plus the cost to transport the Lorelei to Covington KY from Colorado Springs.

That would pay for a shit ton of labor and parts.

I haven't got a reply back from Nick and NickSpeed, and I don't know that I will. I've also reached out to a Toyota specialist here in Colorado Springs, who seems like they might be up to the task of setting the situation right. They have access to a Toyota tech who was active and skilled in the 80s and 90s.
 

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Tippo

Well-known member
Totally repairable. Looks like the fire also got your airbox and a few other close items. Surprisingly it doesn't look too bad!
 

Roreri

Active member
That is good to hear and encouraging. I will endeavor to take it to a couple of local mechanics and see what is involved. It's awkward and expensive dealing with a car that doesn't move under its own power but I'll have to do the necessary. I would not be surprised if, all told, the butcher's bill were $2500 to $3000 between the towing and parts and labor involved in chasing down the problems.

I'm continuing to inquire with Ty Saxon at TCS, but $10,000 is a lot of money. That said, you get a clutch replacement, resurfaced flywheel, modern motor with OBDII, +100hp, upgraded intercooler, and a whole buncha other stuff. And a roll of the dice with a whole new motor.

So it's up to $3000 to make what I have work, or $10,000 for a greatly improved Roreri...

The fire was underway, but looks like I managed to stop it before shit got too out of hand. Fellahs don't work on your cars when you're distracted!
 

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Paulytunes

New member
Oh No!! That sucks! Sorry to hear about this awful news. You fared far better than my uncle Marc, who had a 1970 Datsun 240Z that I had always insisted on having first buyer rights if he ever sold it. As the story goes, he had a small fluid leak that happened to drip on to the hot exhaust after a spirited Sunday drive through the hills of southwestern PA. He didn't notice the smoke when he parked in the driveway and went inside. It didn't take long for the Datsun to burn to a crisp and become a total loss. By the time the neighbors noticed it and they were able to extinguish the fire it was far too late. I think he only has the rear hubcaps left. I was heartbroken, but probably only experienced the fraction of feelings that he must have gone through.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would do whatever you think is the best option within your price range. There may be some satisfaction in being able to fix damaged components, but if there is a question of always having something new fail as an undiscovered lingering damage maybe the full replacement route would be better. I myself tend to worry about what could happen, so for me the solution would be whatever I think would fully repair the damage. I'd probably end up spending a lot in forensic labor, but that would be worth it to me, especially if the Roreri were my cherished classic. Sorry this is somewhat longwinded, but good luck and hope you are back on the road and can make this a war story that was survivable.

Paul
 

Roreri

Active member
Thanks Pauly for the encouragement. I did get out of the battery fire much better than it could have been.

I've decided to pull the trigger on a Gen 5 3SGTE swap into the Lorelei. It's something I have been considering for some time, and this battery fire just tipped me over to yes.

The expense will be rather high, but the gains are considerable.

So, this means that a low mileage (50,000 miles) Gen 2 3SGTE will be available in the late July/early August timeframe. It would be in Covington KY. Alternately, I can haul it back to Colorado Springs or points in between if anyone is interested.

It has a new timing belt, new water pump, and new pulleys. New spark plugs and wires, new distributor cap and rotor, new throttle position sensor, and an aftermarket Fuel Pressure Regulator. There will be a recapped ECU along with it (two if the new Gen 5 3SGTE comes with its own ECU), but I believe that the wiring harness will be stripped and converted by Doug at Wiregap for use on the Gen 5 3SGTE that will be in the Lorelei.

Alternative three, is I could bring it back and disassemble it for parts.

Just thinking this through. If I can recoup some of the costs, while making some parts available, then that would be a positive.

EDIT: If I am serious about selling the Gen 2, then I will make a proper post in the Marketplace.
 
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Tippo

Well-known member
Hey, if that's what your ultimate goal is, might as well head for it! Also yes, Doug can replace/repair any wires on the harness as needed. Typically he'll swap out the connectors to the new harness to make it work using the same wiring but I'm sure he can figure it out. Total wizard, which is why I had him do mine as well.
I didn't care to keep my OG motor with my car since the car was so beat as it was, it lost the value long ago. I ended up selling my very tired motor for $600 so it didn't recoup very much lol. I think you should be able to get 1.5-2ish for yours since it's low mileage JDM.
 

simple

Member
Sorry to hear about this near disaster. Swaps are a work of art for sure. You'll be happy when it's done, which will be a lot faster than doing it yourself. Recently, I found another shop on the east coast that had much less expensive swap prices but I can't find the name on the Google machine. Sounds like you are locked in already though.
 

Roreri

Active member
Thanks for the encouragement Tippo and Simple! Yeah I kinda hopped on it. Might have been precipitous, but I've been gnawing on this for the past several months.

Less expensive is always nice, but Ty Saxon at TCS Motorsports was responsive, and has done a shit ton of these swaps and throws in a fair amount of value into the deal.

Hell, a clutch job alone could be $2000 (high end) if you take it to a shop. Then, $650 for the wiregap harness reconfig. Upgraded 3" TCS intake kit is $140. TCS Gen 5 3" Downpipe is $250. The Gen 5 Fuel Line Kit is $68, but then hours of labor working up the courage to approach it and do it. The new valve cover gasket is a mere $40, but that would be some time doing as well. PCV valve and grommet is a trivial $16 but nice that it's being done. Resurfacing the flywheel is also a costly service as a standalone--maybe $1000. Debatable whether really needed on a "60k engine" but still. The fluid changes are worth $200, and the engine bay cleaning is worth $100 in my view. Powder coating the valve cover is maybe $200? So...about $4600 not even including the price of the motor and the labor to do the swap. Add to that, I get the old deprecated 90s-era performance equipment--the ancient Blitz Twin SBC and the downright dangerous Apexi SAFC--removed in the deal. And the single cool old school JDM bit--the Omoni boost gauge--gets connected to the new motor as do my new aftermarket AutoMeter fuel-air meter and dual temp gauges.

As for the extras: If I got a Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump it would be about $100 but I'd have to spend hours to install it. $275 for that is a deal. $575 for the seal package is also a deal--I would guess over $1000 for a shop do all that stuff as a standalone service. The least expensive EBoost brand EBC is $444. An extra $100 for it to be installed is a deal in my view. $1500 for a custom FMIC and tubing is costly but it is what it is, and it'll be much more effective than the factory TMIC--even the improved Gen 5 TMIC. It would be foolish to not go for that.

So, suffice to say, I don't feel overcharged. I do feel like Jesus Christ I have spent a lot of money on this ride and I sorta wish I'd just taken it in immediately after purchase for a Gen5 swap. Now, a lot rides on the quality of the Gen5 3SGTE they pull off the pile...that's just the nature of the deal...

Hell, I'm going to ask to add an upgraded 3" exhaust system as well, because the 2.5" exhaust is going to choke out the plant.

Might as well go balls to bone.
 

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Tippo

Well-known member
Thanks for the encouragement Tippo and Simple! Yeah I kinda hopped on it. Might have been precipitous, but I've been gnawing on this for the past several months.

Less expensive is always nice, but Ty Saxon at TCS Motorsports was responsive, and has done a shit ton of these swaps and throws in a fair amount of value into the deal.

Hell, a clutch job alone could be $2000 (high end) if you take it to a shop. Then, $650 for the wiregap harness reconfig. Upgraded 3" TCS intake kit is $140. TCS Gen 5 3" Downpipe is $250. The Gen 5 Fuel Line Kit is $68, but then hours of labor working up the courage to approach it and do it. The new valve cover gasket is a mere $40, but that would be some time doing as well. PCV valve and grommet is a trivial $16 but nice that it's being done. Resurfacing the flywheel is also a costly service as a standalone--maybe $1000. Debatable whether really needed on a "60k engine" but still. The fluid changes are worth $200, and the engine bay cleaning is worth $100 in my view. Powder coating the valve cover is maybe $200? So...about $4600 not even including the price of the motor and the labor to do the swap. Add to that, I get the old deprecated 90s-era performance equipment--the ancient Blitz Twin SBC and the downright dangerous Apexi SAFC--removed in the deal. And the single cool old school JDM bit--the Omoni boost gauge--gets connected to the new motor as do my new aftermarket AutoMeter fuel-air meter and dual temp gauges.

As for the extras: If I got a Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump it would be about $100 but I'd have to spend hours to install it. $275 for that is a deal. $575 for the seal package is also a deal--I would guess over $1000 for a shop do all that stuff as a standalone service. The least expensive EBoost brand EBC is $444. An extra $100 for it to be installed is a deal in my view. $1500 for a custom FMIC and tubing is costly but it is what it is, and it'll be much more effective than the factory TMIC--even the improved Gen 5 TMIC. It would be foolish to not go for that.

So, suffice to say, I don't feel overcharged. I do feel like Jesus Christ I have spent a lot of money on this ride and I sorta wish I'd just taken it in immediately after purchase for a Gen5 swap. Now, a lot rides on the quality of the Gen5 3SGTE they pull off the pile...that's just the nature of the deal...

Hell, I'm going to ask to add an upgraded 3" exhaust system as well, because the 2.5" exhaust is going to choke out the plant.

Might as well go balls to bone.
2.5" exhaust is actually proper sizing and it will flow just fine until 500 or so HP. i also have an HKS silent 3" on Mirum, either one is fine. I prefer stock, but really up to whatever you want. Walbro is fine as well. I have a Supra TT HPFP in Lazarus which is working great. gen 5 TMIC may not fit under your hood and since you have a GT4 hood, it may not flow properly, better getting an FMIC for sure. I can tell you from experience TMIC heat soaks pretty bad lol.
 

Roreri

Active member
2.5" exhaust is actually proper sizing and it will flow just fine until 500 or so HP. i also have an HKS silent 3" on Mirum, either one is fine. I prefer stock, but really up to whatever you want. Walbro is fine as well. I have a Supra TT HPFP in Lazarus which is working great. gen 5 TMIC may not fit under your hood and since you have a GT4 hood, it may not flow properly, better getting an FMIC for sure. I can tell you from experience TMIC heat soaks pretty bad lol.
Thank you for your input--very reassuring that I am not putting anything on order that is wasteful or useless.

I am really solid on the FMIC. I do have some minor thoughts about turbo lag but the wise here have FMICs and the forums are not blowing up with regrets, so I see no downside. Being able to push cool air and lots of it is going to be good.

It's really good reassurance about the 2.5" exhaust being proper for a ~300hp plant. I admit that I was operating off of a lack of information, and a desire to avoid choking the plant. I do not know for sure whether my exhaust is stock, but the aft can is not, that much I can tell or am pretty sure as it's a larger 3" final tip.

I'll see what the exhaust is quoted at. I may still go with it as the existing exhaust is older, a bit rusty, and may have leaks. Nothing that couldn't be addressed, frankly, as I have never noted any exhaust fumes in the cabin or excessive noise. I could get it up, mask it, and Ospho it and paint it.

Replacement Shorai battery came today. Holding off on getting a battery box/rack until I get some advice. Plenty of time until I need to have it on hand.
 
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CMS-GT4

Active member
Carry on! There are always setbacks, but if you keep moving on it just adds to the story of the build. Sometimes these things mirror our lives, and we can get discouraged. We have all been there. It is good you keep pressing forward. You'll have it where you want it before you know it.
 

Roreri

Active member
Carry on! There are always setbacks, but if you keep moving on it just adds to the story of the build. Sometimes these things mirror our lives, and we can get discouraged. We have all been there. It is good you keep pressing forward. You'll have it where you want it before you know it.
Thanks for the encouragement! It’s required some strength of will and it’s appreciated. In retrospect it would have been more efficient to just go with the gen5 swap, right off the bat. But it was a good gamble to see if I could stabilize the gen2. Keeping it close to stock had real appeal, and with it being low mileage I thought it a good shot but it just didn’t work out. And as the thread tells, it was some work.

I frankly think it’s a good plant and someone with better skills could make it work great. That person just isn’t me. I plan to bring it back or sell it from Covington KY once it comes out.

At this stage I don’t want to fiddle with my plans a lot. There are really only two things up in the air:

The exhaust: I’m pretty sure that it’s not going to be any impediment to power up through 350-400hp which I am committing to as top end for this, if an upgraded turbo is installed down the road. So, other than it just needing some touch up, I think that’s fine. Any thoughts to concur or amplify or demur?

The clutch: I have the opportunity to have an upgraded heavy duty clutch kit installed during the swap. It would be about $300. A new oem clutch kit comes with the swap. Thoughts on that as a looking ahead upgrade? Per claims on the TCS website it’ll do 310hp at 17psi. I’d hate to not have enough clutch for that, or 350-400hp if I go the upgraded turbo route in the future. Not looking for hard launch strength, but enough to handle the strain if I lay into it properly.
 

underscore

Well-known member
Is that the clutch TCS recommends? Since they're so annoying to swap they're kinda hard to pick for our cars. Ideally you want the lightest one that'll handle the power you'll have. I've had friends put insanely heavy clutches in their cars on the off chance they ever actually build it for 700hp and they're terrible to drive.
 

Roreri

Active member
Is that the clutch TCS recommends? Since they're so annoying to swap they're kinda hard to pick for our cars. Ideally you want the lightest one that'll handle the power you'll have. I've had friends put insanely heavy clutches in their cars on the off chance they ever actually build it for 700hp and they're terrible to drive.
TCS installs an OEM clutch with the Gen5 swap and a clutch upgrade is a $360 option.

You make a good point and I agree that an overly heavy clutch will be unpleasant. I’ll consult with TCS to see what clutch they include in the heavy duty clutch option. Stage One makes some sense and I imagine that’s what’s meant. Stage Two might—for example South Bend has a Stage Two daily. Stage Three doesn’t seem to make any sense.

KO Racing says an upgraded clutch like a ACT HD is a good idea at 300-350whp. 300-350whp I swag at like 340-400bhp.

I have received a recommendation from a buddy of mine who’s been working cars that “You will thank yourself later. The stock clutch is probably tapped at 260ish and really working too hard at 300.”

So…gathering info. The OEM clutch is for a 200-235bhp motor producing ~224lb-ft of torque. The Gen5 makes 256bhp or ~239lb-ft of torque at base, and is said to produce 310bhp at 17psi. Just extrapolating, that could be about 265lb-ft.

So in short: Considering a Stage One or Stage Two clutch as this Gen5 could be making 270lb-ft of torque as opposed to the 224lb-ft of torque coming from a JDM-tuned Gen2.
 
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Roreri

Active member
Per the various clutch options at the TCS website, the only clutch kit that makes sense as a $360 option is the South Bend Stage 1 HD rated at 365lb-ft:


This would be more than enough for the power that I am looking to top out at, while not being too heavy a clutch.

Considering a lightweight Fidanza flywheel as well though I am weighing driveability and experience issues.
 
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Tippo

Well-known member
TCS installs an OEM clutch with the Gen5 swap and a clutch upgrade is a $360 option.

You make a good point and I agree that an overly heavy clutch will be unpleasant. I’ll consult with TCS to see what clutch they include in the heavy duty clutch option. Stage One makes some sense and I imagine that’s what’s meant. Stage Two might—for example South Bend has a Stage Two daily. Stage Three doesn’t seem to make any sense.

KO Racing says an upgraded clutch like a ACT HD is a good idea at 300-350whp. 300-350whp I swag at like 340-400bhp.

I have received a recommendation from a buddy of mine who’s been working cars that “You will thank yourself later. The stock clutch is probably tapped at 260ish and really working too hard at 300.”

So…gathering info. The OEM clutch is for a 200-235bhp motor producing ~224lb-ft of torque. The Gen5 makes 256bhp or ~239lb-ft of torque at base, and is said to produce 310bhp at 17psi. Just extrapolating, that could be about 265lb-ft.

So in short: Considering a Stage One or Stage Two clutch as this Gen5 could be making 270lb-ft of torque as opposed to the 224lb-ft of torque coming from a JDM-tuned Gen2.

HIGHLY recommend the ACT clutch. While a clutch is being done, install an OEM throwout bearing. Use nothing but OEM for that. Since you have low mileage your flywheel is probably fine but you can get it resurfaced if you're worried about it.
 

Roreri

Active member
TCS Motorsports offers three ACT clutches. For some reason ACT was not on my radar. I was assuming the SouthBend was the base upgrade though I have asked. And I was looking at the ClutchMasters offerings--the FX200 and FX300. The ACT offering that would seem to be best for my application would be the ACT HDSS, here:


A new throwout bearing is included in the swap--heck, a lot of stuff is included in the swap. All told given the amount of stuff they do and the fact that they have done a ton of these, it's actually a pretty good deal.

Do you have a thought about keeping the OEM flywheel with an uprated clutch? Any durability/damage possibilities? I have already decided that for my use case the normal weight flywheel is best, or at least NOT a sub 10-lb flywheel.
 

Tippo

Well-known member
As long as the throwout bearing is OEM you're good. OEM flywheel is fine. I also have the street disk, the other stage clutches are way too difficult to depress for daily driving.
 

grip-addict

Active member
fidanza fly and southbend stg2 here. it's good for daily driving, no problem. not an aggressive puck clutch, no launching at every stoplight, it's ez driving.
if you're ever in KC, i'll let you try out the car and see what you think.
i've had stock clutch, clutchmasters stg2, spec stg2, and now the southbend. they've all been pretty similar in drivability. The aftermarket ones take a bit more pedal pressure but they're not awful.
all kits will come with a replacement throwout bearing, but they aren't as high-quality as the oem one. My current setup IS using the TO bearing that came with the southbend, and it makes some noise when the clutch pedal is in. it's otherwise fine.
 
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