Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:18 am

I would say that the best place to put the res is just near the catback since that's where the most space is. The Vibrant res is oval, so you will need to plan better than I did :) I think I will move mine back sometime soon. One thing I forgot to mention is that it will make the exhaust sound a bit higher pitched. Definitely not Honda high, but maybe a bit like an rb26. My car doesn't have the raw, low, static-y sound anymore, which I do miss a bit, but it was still worth the addition to me. I'm not 18 anymore.

The tip-in issues have been largely present since I switched to the Haltech, there's just something in the tune that needs to be modified to fix it. I tried to figure it out on my own, but I'm just phoning it in to a professional at this point. The car didn't have this issue when I first picked it up from the previous owner, but it was on the factory gen 3 ecu and the map sensor wasn't even plugged in so... I'm not sure how that was running anyways. The behavior occurs when stabbing the throttle to downshift/rev match, or in situations where the gas pedal is depressed after the car is in gear but coming down in revs (no throttle applied). What happens is the car will hesitate for a second before the motor does anything. Lean was the first place my brain went too, but the logs don't show that happening, so I'm not sure what it is.

All I'll say about other turbos is... this hobby got a lot more expensive when I moved away from the CT series. I should have gone with a ct20b on my red celica way back when; this white car already came with a Garrett though, so I'm just along for the ride on this wild coaster.

https://www.garrettmotion.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Comp-Map-GTX2860R.jpg
^^link to the compressor map
If I go somewhere between 1 and 1.5 bar then I outta be in the sweet spot for this turbo. Just, no one expect any 500 hp screaming numbers from me.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Mon May 16, 2022 4:35 pm

A couple of updates since the last post: My very energetic border collie wants to herd the car, and I like him too much to run him over. So I installed a backup camera (which meant a new head unit and front camera went in as well). It's nice to get a full view of what's behind the car.

I fixed the wastegate response problems. Nick @ NIXspeed has been excellent at providing post-sales support and I'm very appreciative of his time.
Learned a lesson here - there's too much pressure drop between the compressor housing and the manifold/intercooler. I was using a bung near the throttle body on the 205 WTA core to provide boost pressure reference to the wastegate, and the turbo would just spool out of control. Target 17psi? NAH lets hit overboost and go to 23! Moving it to a tap on the compressor (thanks Nick) resolved the turbo overrun issues.

Definitely a butt-pucker moment if there ever was one:
20220516_121009.jpg


Another issue I was experiencing is that the wastegate would be stuck open and there wouldn't be enough pressure to build any boost. This looked to be a geometry issue with how the wastegate was connecting to the clevis pin on the turbine housing - it'd overextend and be unable to come back. See it in action:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SalRex ... sp=sharing

I tried working around it in a bunch of different ways, but ultimately removing the housing from the car and changing the clevis' location was the solution. TIG welding to the rescue!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bajTno ... sp=sharing

Finally, the wastegate stays closed until it shouldn't and returns to resting like it should. It doesn't seem to open alllllll of the way and I'm still seeing 18-20 at higher RPM's, but my target with this turbo is 23, so I think this will be ok.

I took it for a drive yesterday and did some high speed/rpm runs for the tuning log collection. I noticed the temperature climb after a particularly long WOT run, so I came back and took a look at the logs. Every time after I boost the car, I can see the temperature rise in the logs. Considering that the temp gauge has always fluctuated on this engine since I've owned it, I immediately got paranoid and ran a cracked block / BHG test:

(I don't know why these are showing up as "broken", but if you right click on it and hit 'open image in new tab' in chrome, it loads).
Image
After 10 minutes, it stayed the same. Ok, phew, that's good news.

Image

Decided to test it on the muffler just to make sure it worked. Good to go!
So at this point... either the gen3 motor routinely increases the coolant temp after boosting, or the head is lifting under boost, which there isn't a good way to test for that. :shrug: I'm going to just keep at the tuning for now, and if I go to the dyno and it makes 200 hp, then I'll know it's the latter.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Roreri » Mon May 16, 2022 10:05 pm

Butt-pucker moment is right!

What are the temps getting to? Are they egregious or just elevated? Does it correct itself?

I consistently see 210 degrees F as max temp for coolant and 213 degrees F is as high as I've ever seen oil temp.

You setting up a bung near the throttle body for boost pressure has me in mind to do that for IAT. I have a dual temperature gauge set up to provide coolant and oil temps. I could move one of the sensors there and install a plug in the donor bung.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby underscore » Mon May 16, 2022 10:27 pm

Yeah how much temperature increase are we talking about here? Some fluctuation is normal. Boosted or not, an engine is going to produce more heat under load.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Tue May 17, 2022 2:43 am

Well, maybe it's not so bad then if you are seeing 210 Roreri. That's where I'm running up to when I start boosting. I watched the temp go from 170 to 190 in 40 seconds after a long boosted run and that seemed like a bit of a spike to me. I don't ever remember my red car doing that (gen 2 3s) and that's leading to the paranoia, but this motor has also been running on an aftermarket turbo for far longer.
I guess what I need to ask is, how hot is too hot?
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Roreri » Tue May 17, 2022 3:07 am

195-220 degrees F is normal range for coolant from what I've read. I have a dual temp gauge, one of them taking readings from a probe at the coolant return line and the other at the same place the OEM oil temp sensor is located on a T-fitting.

I've observed that my coolant temperature can move around quite a bit, but I have the LEDs set to flash when it exceeds 210 degrees, because it doesn't happen very often (so far I haven't observed the gauge readings during the summer).

Oil temp can move around a bit too.

I'd start worrying if the Lorelei started creeping north of 215 for coolant temp because I haven't seen that yet (the radial LEDs on the outside of my gauge are 5 degrees each). 240 would be too hot for me. I'd pull over and try and figure out what's going on.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:49 am

Is anyone else getting tired of the heat lately? Working on... anything outside is getting real old with the current weather here in the midwest.

My car's currently sitting in a bit of a holding pattern for now:
Massive concrete job taking place in my backyard right in front of where the car is parked. No driving until it's done curing next week

It's too hot to do much inside my detached garage until we drop below the 90's during the day; that place is a friggin' sauna.

I am waiting for my preferred local dyno shop to fix their dyno; they experienced bearing failure due to lack of maintenance and the rear dyno roller decided to extricate itself from the dyno itself. Due to covid and staffing issues bc they fired the guy running the dyno; it's been down for a while and will still be for at least another month. There's one other awd dyno in the area, but the front office guy working there is the worst human being I've ever met outside of Orlando (sorry FL apologists, you know some people who live there are... challenging... to be around) and I'd rather just wait.

I did swap from the on-ecu map sensor to a dedicated remote one and engine responds to throttle changes soooo much better now. I'm now doing what Toyota did from the factory on the gen3 motor but with a better sensor, so this one's on me. I'm probably going to wire in a bosch donut-style knock sensor between now and the dyno session too, so I'm hoping I can get better readings and a better tune when it's time to finish the fuel/timing map on the dyno. The factory knock sensor doesn't work perfectly with the Haltech Elite; it's almost always sending signal outside the range that the Haltech is programmed to know what to do with. Could be because it's old tech or could be because the factory sensor is busted. :shrug:

Lastly, I need to find a spot to ship this spare motor I have in order to get it built. I found some metal shavings in the oil pan of this motor last time I did an oil change, so it's gotta be only a matter of time before it gives up the ghost. Anyone want a ceramic ct20b with 40k miles?
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Roreri » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:03 am

I have the feeling I should want that CT20b, but I can't bring myself to do it until I have the issues I'm currently experiencing locked down.

Sorry to rub it in, but it was 67 degrees and overcast here in Colorado Springs today. We're having a hell of a thunderstorm at the moment, but yeah. My cousin in Ohio said it was 90 with humidity making it feel like 105. 4 seasons, all angry af in that state.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:37 pm

update: Finally scheduled dyno time for next week.
While I've been waiting, I:
changed the MAP setup around. I'm no longer using the onboard sensor on the Haltech and instead have a dedicated MAP sensor on the firewall (like oem). I went from like 4 ft of vac line to 9" and the throttle response and tip in is waaaaay better and smoother.
I upgraded the knock sensor. I'm now using a Bosch donut-style sensor and did away with the OEM one. Since the OE sensor is a bolt and the new one is not, some additional hardware was needed to run the new sensor. I ordered 90126-08046 from Toyota and it threads directly into the tapped hole where the OE sensor used to run. Ran some shielded twisted pair wiring, grounded the shielding on only the ECU side, and after some additional splices and crimps, I'm up and running. This sensor is already providing better data than the OE one was as the factory one was always sending noise. I hope this gives the tuner the right information he needs to get the timing map dialed in on the dyno.


At this point... I probably just need to buy a flying lead harness from Haltech and re-terminate everything so it's nice and clean. Maybe when the spare engine goes in and I switch to DBW and distributor-less ignition.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:32 pm

crop20221006_162045.jpg
dyno run

well, I expected more power, but at least it's running and has a safe tune. I'm going to replace the wires and plugs in the hopes that it solves that tq dip at 6k. Otherwise... I'm not sure what could be causing that.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Roreri » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:39 pm

275 ain’t bad. If I remember correctly 275 is about what TTE was running for WRC. Am I right?

Given the nonsense I been going through, I’d just be happy to have mine running! So kudos. Doing a little work on it today and will do a check ride in a couple of hours.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Gert » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:49 am

Yes, not too bad, I think.

Any more info about boostlevel(s), cams? Turbo (GT30?) AF? Etc, etc.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:13 pm

21 psi on the gtx2860r. St205 motor/cams/manifolds/intercooler. 11.2 afr at max boost here and I think it was 16 degrees timing at this boost level. Full mechanical mods is in the opening post.

I made 280 awhp on my red alltrac with a 2nd gen motor and a gt2860r at 18 psi, so I was expecting a bit more power here with the added boost and increased ve.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby Gert » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:24 pm

Doesn't have the Haltec some log functions?

I can imagine that it isn't nice to see that the power is a bit lower than expected.

From memory, my friend over here was very disappointed with his GT28. He swapped it for an GT30 and pushed easily 300+ hp with 1 bar and relatively stock (2e gen CS) engine with ST205 intake cam.

If memory serves me right, my 2e gen engine pushed 282 hp at 1,1 bar with upgraded CT26 (PT), ported head, 264 cams at about 12,5 AFR.
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Re: Grip Addict's project: it's always the small things

Postby grip-addict » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:29 pm

Hi all,
Some long-overdue and some newer updates incoming.

We've had some really unseasonably nice weather lately here in the midwest, and that has meant so much more time to drive the car. It's really been nice. I've put in so many miles that the car decided to complain and ask for a break :)

One of the first mods I performed when buying this car was installing a walbro 255 pump as it still had a factory fuel pump even with the gt3071r turbo. Of course, old rusty parts don't like to loosen easily, so I wrecked the fuel tank straps (expected) and the fuel feed line from the fuel sender (unexpected and very unfortunate). At the time of the install, I looked and could not find another 185 fuel pump hanger, so I repaired the feed line with fuel injection hose and a slew of clamps. Predictably, this worked great until it didn't. Fast forward a few years, and one of the clamps had loosened enough for the line to come undone :(.

Fortunately for me, some other board members had also experienced issues with the fuel pump hanger since my initial repair and someone was smart enough to try the 205 unit. I'm so thankful that people on this forum still share information and things that they learn even though no one has been developing our platform for sometime now.

This is a st205 hanger from gt4play with a walbro 255 pump. The only thing that wasn't bolt-on is I swapped over the noise-canceller on the 12v line from my 185 hanger and crimped the wires together. After rivet, some DR-25, and open barrel splices, the hanger was safely and snugly back inside the tank.
Image

While I was dealing with the pump, I decided it'd be a great time to fix the straps. I bent up a few of these brackets and mig'd them into place with captive nuts, then gave the duo a good cleaning and a few coats of 3m rubberized undercoating. This outta buy me quite a few years on these straps.

Image
Image


Since then, I took delivery of a carbon microsystems CF RC hood, and I have to say that it looks magnificent. The heat mitigating properties of this design are absolutely realized here too; I'm seeing far lower coolant temp and IAT readings. Before with the factory 185 hood, the st205 w2a intercooler would eventually just heatsoak and take foreeeeevvvveeeerrr to cool down to something normalish. Now, it's just not a problem at all. Instead of seeing a 155 hot-start IAT's that take forever to come down, now the number is 120 and it drops very quickly once the car is back on and moving. I DID have to move the hood latch up about 1/4" in order for the hood to actually catch, but I haven't had any issues since. I'll be having it ceramic coated soon so I can get a long life out of it, and I'm also on the hunt for the hood mesh so the local wildlife doesn't try to take up residence inside the engine bay during winter.

Image
^^ one of the few times where the car actually needs a bath. It doesn't get out much...


After speaking with my tuner a bit more about the results, he offered 3 suggestions on how to safely get a bit more power. My only goal is to beat out the 280 awhp I hit with my red car 15ish years ago, so I think this is an achievable target.
1. get rid of the factory trigger system, he was seeing timing drift at high rpm (as much as 5 degrees) and wasn't able to command it as tightly as desired
2. install water injection (do step 1 first)
3. improve VE via cams or bigger turbo (next meaningful step up would be a gtx2867r, but probably a gtx3071r would make more sense for the money spent (and this means more lag, ugh)).

So, I'm going to work on step 1 over the winter as it seems like this should be fixed anyways. I have a bit of wiring ahead of me:
Image
these are 1nz coils and they look like they'll fit under the st205 chargercooler, but it will be tight.

I just need to do some research and see how other people are handling 12v for their coil-on-plug conversions. I wonder if people are running a new circuit or just using the existing power feed that went to the single factory coil or not. We'll see how this goes, it might be all that I need to do.

Oh and lastly, some good news -- I hit 4.54 in my first and only 0-60 mph test. This is with a non-professional driving and doing a quick clutch slip from 5k rpm and a good shift into second. I'm sure a better driver who wouldn't care about abusing the car would get a much lower number in perfect conditions; I could see 4 flat or maybe even high 3's. 4.5 is enough for me though as I'm not using flat shift, dumping the clutch, or using the 2step to provide more than 7psi of boost. I do want to keep the car running as best I can :D
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