Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

underscore

underscore

Well-known member
I was planning on drilling a small hole in the coupler, and putting in a bolt +washer with the head on the inside of the coupler, and a nut + washer on the outside. Said bolt would be larger than the injector, and drilled and tapped for the injector. Once everythings snugged down, silicone it to seal up any potential leaks, and install it.
 
K

klue

New member
558795_504707419563993_64346191_n.jpg



here is a picture of WI set up with a RC cooler. Wasnt anything fancy, just a kit I put together years ago, worked awesome I was doing low 14s with a ct26.
 
M

MXP_57

New member
Yes it might work. I'd definitely do this if you are running a MAP, but with the MAF i prefer to avoid any chance of air leak post AFM.
 
___Scott___

___Scott___

Active member
Here is what I did on my old 165:
DSCN4453.JPG


Mounted to the top of the intercooler just before the outlet is actually a cold-start injector from an '89 Camry if I remember right. It worked really well at killing detonation, but I didn't crank up the boost to assess its usefulness at helping make power.
 
M

MrMcQuacker

New member
So from my understanding. Pre turbo will cool down intake temps and quicker spool and help turbo and help resist detnation? If that's the case that's exactly where I am going to put mine.
 
M

MXP_57

New member
To help resist detonation you want the water to evaporate during combustion so it has to be as close to the cylinders as possible. You are right for the rest.
 
G

gearhead313

New member
MXP_57":g14ysvqv said:
To help resist detonation you want the water to evaporate during combustion so it has to be as close to the cylinders as possible. You are right for the rest.
Click to expand...


exactly. it will also be best atomized when closest to the throttle body due to the air properties as it passes through. and dont spray it into the turbine..sheesh.
 
Z

zero06

New member
this topic is about water meth injection, not anti-lag methods... soo lets get off of that

my problem is that I am getting boost creep under WOT with the ct27 + my 3" exhaust...
with silencer in I am getting slow creep from 15-18 psi. my wastegate isn't flowing enough. and no its not the downpipe, I have already checked.

I'm looking at water meth as a safety net. anyone know of any good systems? Kit's or ways to make one using the w2a IC?
 
K

klue

New member
zero06":qjqkbycf said:
this topic is about water meth injection, not anti-lag methods... soo lets get off of that

my problem is that I am getting boost creep under WOT with the ct27 + my 3" exhaust...
with silencer in I am getting slow creep from 15-18 psi. my wastegate isn't flowing enough. and no its not the downpipe, I have already checked.

I'm looking at water meth as a safety net. anyone know of any good systems? Kit's or ways to make one using the w2a IC?
Click to expand...




I think its a bad idea to use the WI instead of fixing your issue. when you took the DP off, did you check to see how much the waste gate door is opening? and at what PSI?

I'm assuming you've got a full 3" exhaust What downpipe are you using?
 
M

Mafix

New member
if this isn't a track only car then you are masking a problem with a bandaid. might i subscribe some reading from corky bell.
your complaints of boost creep are from the terrible wastegate. fixing that will solve everything.

and not to sound rude...
but am i the only person that can't understand why people use WTA on street cars? FMIC are cheap and easy. even a proper setup is cheap compared to wta. i've never seen a wta yeild temps that i get with my fmic, even on the hottest days. and until i can see proof that i'm wrong, which doesn't exsist on anything run for more than a couple minutes without adding any additional weight, i'll stick to tried and true.

MXP is building a monster. a bit of an exception.
 
K

klue

New member
Having used both systems, the FMIC definitely gives you cooler temperatures. You are after all cooling directly with the ambient air. The WTA is only cooling the coolant from ambient air, which in turn must then transfer the head from the charge. Lack of efficiency there for sure. But the WTA temperatures are far more stable, it is less susceptible to quick changes in temperature and heat soak. You also have the option to cool the charge beyond ambient using ice. Or for those that are a little more challenged using freon. I've tried force cooling the charge with air condition systems but had major issues with water condensing in the charge cooler. It was a fun experiment

FMIC has given me stable tempatures on track, but thats only after using a massive core. Downside to that, all the hot air coming out the back of my FMIC goes into the radiator reducing its efficiency and on some examples leads to cooling issues.

ugh the debate could be endless, both systems can work well when properly engineered
 
underscore

underscore

Well-known member
Why worry about a bit of added weight on a street car? Isn't there more lag with a FMIC as well? Not to mention added cost for no apparent reason if you've already got a WTA.

And then of course there's the cool factor :D
 
A

aus jd 2703

New member
I am curious about real results from a mist before the turbo, there has been lots of talk about this and apparently with current nozzles you can safely do it, but what i am curious about is actual results? do you feel a difference?
as for the waste gate creep the more i read the more i realize this is a real issue for CT2x turbos, what are the options to prevent creep if you need to run a CT2x turbo? apart from a spacer plate and another waste gate?
 
M

Mafix

New member
underscore":2r6bgex8 said:
Why worry about a bit of added weight on a street car? Isn't there more lag with a FMIC as well? Not to mention added cost for no apparent reason if you've already got a WTA.

And then of course there's the cool factor :D
Click to expand...
there is no added lag. i've never seen any proof or felt any difference in lag period.
a proper super light fmic like mine is about 1300 with the bov and everything else...a stock rc or 205 setup will run about 700 used. but you are limited in power levels due to size.

it is a never ending arguement. but i stand to say: street car = fmic race car=wta

of course there are exceptions.
 
M

Mafix

New member
a small exert in this:
what i'm talking about applies to cars with the engine in the front. it's completely different with other setups.
 
underscore

underscore

Well-known member
Mafix":2ecur6dj said:
there is no added lag. i've never seen any proof or felt any difference in lag period.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time believing this when the piping becomes many, many times longer than the couple inches of couplers a top mount has, plus most of the cores I see used to to have 1.5-2x the capacity of the OEM WTA. Especially with a BOV, has anyone actually measured a properly function WTA system vs a FMIC, or is this all butt dyno stuff?

Mafix":2ecur6dj said:
a proper super light fmic like mine is about 1300 with the bov and everything else...a stock rc or 205 setup will run about 700 used.
Click to expand...

I only said its an added cost if you've already got WTA, there's also a lot more hassle involved in trying to add a WTA system to an ATA car. Regardless, that's still $600 most people would prefer to spend on something else.

Mafix":2ecur6dj said:
but you are limited in power levels due to size.
Click to expand...

How so? I've heard that the RC/CS setup can be good up to 600HP with an upgraded core at the front. That's plenty for most people
 
M

Mafix

New member
underscore":3snx9yid said:
Mafix":3snx9yid said:
there is no added lag. i've never seen any proof or felt any difference in lag period.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time believing this when the piping becomes many, many times longer than the couple inches of couplers a top mount has, plus most of the cores I see used to to have 1.5-2x the capacity of the OEM WTA. Especially with a BOV, has anyone actually measured a properly function WTA system vs a FMIC, or is this all butt dyno stuff?

Mafix":3snx9yid said:
a proper super light fmic like mine is about 1300 with the bov and everything else...a stock rc or 205 setup will run about 700 used.
Click to expand...

I only said its an added cost if you've already got WTA, there's also a lot more hassle involved in trying to add a WTA system to an ATA car. Regardless, that's still $600 most people would prefer to spend on something else.

Mafix":3snx9yid said:
but you are limited in power levels due to size.
Click to expand...

How so? I've heard that the RC/CS setup can be good up to 600HP with an upgraded core at the front. That's plenty for most people
Click to expand...

you can have very long pipes and no lag. it starts life as a vacuum system then goes to pressure. simple fluid dynamics. we are not talking hundreds of feet. and PROPER intercoolers...not shitty ones from the 90's.

in the USA...NO celica came with a good wta system. and then you are buying used parts with a prayer they actually work.

and your final point is HEARD. i've seen many dynos that they become a bother at about 400bhp. more with ice loaded in the system but then i can freeze my fmic with some co2 or nos and get the same effect. i'd love to see say...trevors car with a rc or 205 cooler on it. that would be a hoot. i'd bet he would loose nearly 100 hp as compared to his current setup. or god forbid pat...the coupler would never hold the boost he runs.

and yes PROPER setups are not cheap. hell look at the thread about the evolution of my FMIC system. it's finally done. like 10 years later or something stupid like that. using money as an example of one thing being better than the other is not valid. there are always deals to be had. i was only throwing prices out there for members to see. and if i was pushing fmics why the hell would i post up those prices?

the point of this thread: meth injection on a stock wta system, in the original posters request, will not solve his problem nor will it help him. he needs to fix his boost creep.
 
underscore

underscore

Well-known member
Mafix":nky309ji said:
you can have very long pipes and no lag. it starts life as a vacuum system then goes to pressure. simple fluid dynamics. we are not talking hundreds of feet.
Click to expand...

No, but we're talking about many times the volume of air to be pressurized.

Mafix":nky309ji said:
in the USA...NO celica came with a good wta system.
Click to expand...

There is a world outside the USA :lol: . And anyone with an RC/CS/205 halfcut has a full WTA system to put in.

Mafix":nky309ji said:
and your final point is HEARD. i've seen many dynos that they become a bother at about 400bhp. more with ice loaded in the system but then i can freeze my fmic with some co2 or nos and get the same effect. i'd love to see say...trevors car with a rc or 205 cooler on it. that would be a hoot. i'd bet he would loose nearly 100 hp as compared to his current setup. or god forbid pat...the coupler would never hold the boost he runs.
Click to expand...

400bhp on what setup? Stock RC/CS? Stock 205? Upgraded front cores or stock? Upgraded pumps or stock? Pat makes double the power I was saying they were good to at the crank, so that's a moot point. I'd be curious to see what a fully custom system could do though.

Mafix":nky309ji said:
the point of this thread: meth injection on a stock wta system, in the original posters request, will not solve his problem nor will it help him. he needs to fix his boost creep.
Click to expand...

His original question was how to mount the meth injector, this thread has nothing to do with boost creep.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top