Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:36 pm
LechacZ wrote:If ur asking if the rad and shifter cables from 185 car will hook up to 205 motor and tranny then the answer is yes, but rad and cables from 205 will not fit on the 185 car.
scothaniel wrote:Use the ST185 harness - MUCH easier. You just move around the wires in the ecu plugs, change the cold-start-injector plug to the manifold air temp, and add an extra temp sensor to the water elbow -unless you dont want the stock water temp gauge or A/C. I have posted a little drawing for which pins to change on the ST185 harness.
For the IC setup, there have been plenty of posts on this subject on the yahoo gt4 forum. If I remember correctly, you use a 2 ohm resistor to fool the ECU into thinking the pump is still there. Cant remember what the IC water level sensor was supposed to see - either a ground or a 12v singal. I have to find out myself, as I'm installing a 205 ECU right now - so I'll have the info in a couple of days.
You'll want to pull the speedo sensor out the the ST185 trans - it'll fit right in.
scothaniel wrote:Sorry for not responding earlier - had a few issues this weekend that kept me busy. I'll PM my phone number, glad to help where ever I can.
The first time I did the swap, I used the 205 harness and tried to swap the 205 fuse box over - big mistake. The bulk of the issues were because I dont have the BGB for the 205, so I dont have all the diagrams for the secondary systems. I spent a lot of hours repinning the dash plugs and working through the fuse box, checking for proper connectivity. It was a mess. I ended up ditching the harness, then later on swapped over just the 205 fuse box in an attempt to free up 2" of space. I need a bigger engine bay!
The second time I used all 185 harnesses only, and re-pinned the 3 connectors for the 205 ECU, then went through the diagrams to make sure all the sensors were getting the proper voltage. Made the changes I listed before and it worked perfectly. So much easier. I made a little diagram that others have used for repinning thiers.
My last 3 harness projects have been more difficult, and have really taught me some valueable lessons - like keeping the wiring as simple as possible. For instance, I spent all weekend troubleshooting some weird s#&% on one harness without any luck. The engine is a 3rd gen 3SGE converted to turbo, the ECU is from a ST205, the harness is from the 3SGE (had to be lengthened and modified) and the car is a 97 Celica ST. I have a major issue with the ECU / ISC valve and troubleshooting has been an absolute nightmare since none of it is stock. A full weeked and the car is no closer to being on the road... very depressing.
When you leave the internals of the harness in tact, its one less thing to worry about, one more thing to rule out when there is a problem.
Just my 2 cents.
CMS-GT4 wrote:So I just finished doing my notes for a 92-93 pin conversion to the 3rd gen, and all I can say is wow. It looks like I may only have to move 2 pins. FPR (Fuel Pump relay) and PIM Turbo Pressure sensor.
Everything else matches up.
All I have to switch after is the install is a couple of wires for sensors on the engine end, and it should be good to go.
Now I just got to make sure I have the info figured out for the code 54 intercooler pump since I will have a fmic.
Here is a link to the 90-91 pin swap to 205.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/154/ ... mod1rz.jpg
k_trac wrote:Ya, motor mounts dont match up....its too bad, I had them on when I was first putting the motor in then after a little tweaking I realized that only the half of the rear mount was compatable.
I did use my gen3 power steering pump however, it just had a different outlet for the high pressure line, which was a little tricky to work on in the car, but i got it all together.
I think I am going to stick with the 205 harness, the whole this is legnthened now, so I just gotta match up the box, may have some time soon.
Let me know how its going man!
CMS-GT4 wrote:Please do.
I think I have all the wiring sorted out less the two water temp sensors on the elbow.
In the place the THAM sensor will go, I have an egr temp sensor. I am just going to splice it to the THAM sensor.
The rest should be cake. Except those hoses...
Ok, so I am soldering in 205 plugs to the 185 harness where needed-
-Had to gind some material off the 205 ignitor to fit into the 185 plug, went on, but barely, may need to swap the plug over if it acts up
I have the whole 185 harness in place, 95% plugged in....
Things I have left-
-Wire up IC
-Is the 185 injector resistor / fuel pump resistor ok to use?
-What plugs into that green vsv looking plug on the 205 charcoal canister?
-How do I hook up the temp probe in the downpipe?
Josh or scott...
k_trac wrote:I do have some tips....there were a few wierd things I ran into along the way. Most of them wont apply to you Josh, since you have a 92 and arent running the IC. ex- wiring schematic had wrong colors listed for some IC wires.
I did figure out how to pull the pins, requires very little force, and a VERY small pic. Actually, I think a sewing needle would have worked best. I could draw a picture of what it looks like inside now that I understand it.
Im sure Ill think of other stuff.
k_trac wrote:Few things about the pins-
Ill take a pic of the pins later today. Dont mar up the plastic, its easy to do. It takes very little effort to pull out he pins, so if you are forcing it, youre not doing it right.
Another thing about the pins- There are two different sizes. if you look at the face of the 13pin connector the outer two pins on eash side have bigger holes, differnt from all the others.
So if you do have to swap those pins on your 92, you have to cut off the pins and use the small or big type depending on which way you go. I salvaged some small ones from the AC harness of my 205 harness. Still had to modify those with a dremel to snap in fully.
As for the water temp, Ill check that again and let you know which wires I used. One of the two codes im getting is for a water sensor. The other is the temp sensor in the air cleaner. So I have to look into those, but besides that, everything seems hunky dory!
k_trac wrote:Here is a pic of my pick, deppining the harness. If you have a white connector of some harness, like the small AC plug that goes behind the glove box, take a look at it.
When you look inside one of the pin holes that does NOT have a pin, you will see the little snap that holds the pin in place.
I say look at a white connector because you can actually see inside bc its a lot lighter. Once you can identify the snap that holds the pin in place, try moving it around with the pic. All you really need to do is push it upwards, away from the pin.
What I noticed is that it does not work well to just wedge the pic in between the snap and the pin becuase it binds up that way. Take the time to push up without touching the pin and pull the wire out the backside.
You really do need three hands, one to hold the harness, one for the pic, and one to pull the wire. I used my chin to hold the pic in place most of the time. You will create your own method. A vice for the harness would work too.
On an aside, my CEL stopped coming on, took it for a hell ride around the block....YES, A LOT FASTER THAN A STOCK 185!
Still dont have temp probe or charcoal canister hooked up to anything.....
CMS-GT4 wrote:Made some progress today.
Changed connectors for
Also changed out the head on the A/C unit.
I need to see pics of the water neck and how others did it.
Edit: Dug through the 205 bgb and found the THAM.
CMS-GT4 wrote:Just an update, I am getting close to done and being able to start the car up.
I have a question though, can someone tell me where this water line connects to?
k_trac wrote:That looks more like the spot for one of the water temp sensors. I dont know which one, but theres only two.
As for the AC sensor in the water elbow, you need to pull off the sensor from the other elbow and find out what thread it is. Im pretty sure that its a straight thread that seals on a copper washer. So you would need to drill, tap, then get a flat sufrace to seal against. Pipe threads are easy, they just seal themselves.
Dude, for the belts, I would think they are the same as gen2. I used a alt. belt from a non AC 5sfte engine with a modified tensioner. I would bet $20 that the belts that came off your gen2 will fit the gen3.
YES, it does matter which wires go the the THAM etc. Just match the + to+ and the - to -
You will need to swap of the connectors for tham and tha from your st205 harness. You keep the st205 sensors, and splice the connectors into the 185 harness....actually the 185 may fit....try it out.
Its the sender for the temp gauge on the dash.
scothaniel wrote:Wow, this thread started in back Sept 05. I feel for you Coldiron, you've been working on this project for almost 2 years now - I'm sure you've got to be pretty frustrated.
The 205 injector coil pack has the same resistance as the 185, the only difference is the pigtail. The 205 fuel pump resistor is also the same.
Your vac does sound low. I'm usually idling in the mid-20s, with vacuum overrun around 30hg.
CMS-GT4 wrote:My swap, pretty much finished.
Here is the thread where I am trying to figure out he AC.
CMS-GT4 wrote:No time to summarize, but you may get questions answered now and then.
TO swap the alternator, just change the plug on the harness. Remove the 185 plug, and solder the st205 plug. This is what you will be doing for all the items that require a new plug.
I know its a lot, but I suggest reading the whole thread, and take pics and notes of all your vacuum lines on the 205 engine. It would also be wise to post your pics and progress here as it will help some help you if you have an issue, and it also add to the data of what one has to do to do the swap.
CMS-GT4 wrote:aus jd 2703 wrote:Hey has any one figured out a way to wire the ecu and intercooler up so it doesn't throw a code at all
It requires all the 205 connectors. There is something special how the 205 plug is wired to make it work. So if you have a 205 clip, you can pull the wires and make it work, if not you are best doing the code 54 fix.aus jd 2703 wrote:Also I have an early 1990 3sgte so I don't have te1 and te2 what did u guys do here?
On my notes those are listed as "check connectors." Its been a few years so I do not remember what that means.
Now on the 1990 BGB it looks like the te1 is listed. It is just marked as T but the description is t-e1.
I am not sure about te2 though. You may want to do some research and find out if it is somehow related to OX. Some people in this thread did this on a 90-91 model, so you may want to PM them and post your findings here.
http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/ ... /FI/FI.htm
http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/ ... I/FI95.htm
KORacing wrote:just completed this conversion on a 90 alltrac thanks in big part to this thread. I came up with a slightly modified fix for the code 54 that didn't use a bulb, but two 1/4 watt 10k resistors in parallel (equals 1/2 watt 5k ohm load). On the intake temp sensor, at the AFM connection I put a 10k resistor across the THA and E2 pins and code 24 went away. Thanks for the great info. Would be nice to see this information in a more concise format -- I may use the information here to create an article on the swap.
BTW, I used the 90 4 wire o2 sensor with the 90 engine harness just fine.
Cost to do this conversion again (not including parts): $2200
On this customer car we also installed a front mount IC setup with custom pipe, painted and installed a CS front bumper, and installed a Street Brawler billet 58mm turbo kit (gen 3 of course), custom air intake with the battery still in stock location, and a Blitz spec R boost controller.
KORacing wrote:CMS-GT4 wrote:Glad it helped. I might condense it some day whenever I finally finish my car.
EDIT: Maybe you might help me. I notice a slight dip in idle when I hit the gas. Any idea what to check for? Everything is stock but the intake, and turbo back exhaust.
If your TPS adjustment is correct, then I'd say that it's likely that it's running a little rich or lean right at throttle tip-in causing a slight hesitation. Could be due to a incorrectly reading temp sensor (air or water), o2 sensor, etc. Hard to say what it is if you are running all the used JDM parts. Fuel pressure correct? Not a lot of info from the stock ECU...
I actually started the car we swapped with a Hydra to see what the temp sensors were reading to see if things looked normal before starting it with the stock Gen 3 ecu, but not really an option for most people...
KORacing wrote:aus jd 2703 wrote:Won't not running a tha sensor throw the ecu offas it's a VE based map? I'm looking forward to putting mine on the road just gottamake a custom intake hose and water lines for the wta ic
The THA is probably much less critical to running than the THAM (manifold air temp sensor) as that is the sensor used primarily in the speed density calculation. My guess is the THA is used as a correction for ambient conditions as it is pre-charge cooler temperature and ultimately, it is the temperature of the air in the manifold (post charge-cooler) that is critical to how dense the air going into the engine is.
83841 wrote:HKS SLD ( speed limit defencer defender )
http://www.rhdjapan.com/hks-sld-speed-l ... ype-i-9835
Found this on GT4OC for you if your running stock JDM ST205 ECU
ECU will have 3 plugs. What you need are:
Big Brown Wire (Earth)
Black/Yellow Wire (12 Ignition Power)
Orange Wire (Speed Signal to ECU)
Check an ECU pinout diagram if you're not too sure where those are but they're all unique from what I can remember and pretty easy to find imo.
Make sure you have a decent set of crimps or needle nose pliers as the bullet crimps supplied aren't the best for the size of wire you'll be crimping, ended up soldering mine.
Black Wire on SLD -> Brown Wire
Red Wire on SLD -> Black-Yellow Wire
White Wire on SLD -> Orange Wire Loom Side
Yellow Wire on SLD -> Orange Wire ECU Side
There may also be a blue wire on the SLD but this is not used from what I can tell. Instructions are only guaranteed for ST205's and not other GT4s as I can't honestly say everything will be the same, I would imagine they are but without having wired one up in one I can't say for certain. SLD also tucks away nicely under the little L-Bracket thing under the ECU that the carpet velcro's onto. Works a treat as far as I can tell. Hopefully this information will help someone.
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